• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

What kind of Ash do you want?

SapphireMillennium

The Legend of Hoenn
76
Posts
9
Years
I would like an Ash who is a bit more like Red in the PokeSpe manga, though maybe not as...serious? I just wish that Ash was a bit more mature (I thought he was heading there in the Advanced seasons) but then once BW hit, he was "such a kid!" again. xD
 

d

Guest
0
Posts
I like/am fine with Ash just the way he is. As long as he wins the pokemon league at some point in the future and becomes a champion I don't see any point in changing him since he only does dumb things because the writers want to show people new to watching the show how pokemon training/battling works.
 

Nyro

The Bug Master
63
Posts
9
Years
I actually kinda like the whiney but stubbornly determined ash from the original series.
 
2,581
Posts
12
Years
  • Seen Nov 13, 2019
Well since you're so insistent on this afixiation, I ask this:

If that's the case, DOES ASH REALLY NEED TO BE PORTRAYED AS RECKLESS!? If this is what people are going to wish on Ash, then what's that point in the first place. It's like creating an artificial human being named Smacky McEstupido (Codename: LEROY.JENKINS), whose sole purpose is to be as rash, childish, and stupid as possible, so others can yell at him and inflict physical abuse.

This is the right thread !
You want to know Why Ash has to be reckless !!!!
Because He's the FREAKING PROTAGONIST !!!
Its the same reason why Nobita has to be Lazy Loser who always screw up (Doremon).
Because the Entire Doreamon Series is about a Lazy Nobita always looking for Shortcut to skip hardwork and getting himself in a Bigger screw up .
The same way , Ash has to be reckless in order to get himself in dangerous situation to save Pokemon and the world .

Not only that , Ash has to be a Very smart , Sharp and strong Immature Boy who also happen to be a Narcissist .
Example : Unova champion Alder .
He's the strongest trainer in Unova and very sharp minded But he also happened to be a immature Perverted Old man who chase after cute girl.

Oh , How did you got permission for such a Big sig ???
 
208
Posts
16
Years
  • Seen May 10, 2016
This is the right thread !
You want to know Why Ash has to be reckless !!!!
Because He's the FREAKING PROTAGONIST !!!
Its the same reason why Nobita has to be Lazy Loser who always screw up (Doremon).
Because the Entire Doreamon Series is about a Lazy Nobita always looking for Shortcut to skip hardwork and getting himself in a Bigger screw up .
The same way , Ash has to be reckless in order to get himself in dangerous situation to save Pokemon and the world .

Not only that , Ash has to be a Very smart , Sharp and strong Immature Boy who also happen to be a Narcissist .
Example : Unova champion Alder .
He's the strongest trainer in Unova and very sharp minded But he also happened to be a immature Perverted Old man who chase after cute girl.

Oh , How did you got permission for such a Big sig ???

Fine then. Because he's the main character he shouldn't be scolded for the things that make him the main character. That isn't entertainment.
 
13,600
Posts
15
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Dec 11, 2023
Ash is reckless because that's part of his nature and his extreme love for Pokemon. Most if not all of his reckless actions are either for a friend or a Pokemon's sake; he's not being reckless just for the sake of being reckless. Dumb like trying to go up a mountain because a Pokemon Master can take on anything? Yeah sure, but if we're talking about his life-risking recklessness, no. That's because he thinks about Pokemon and his friends before he thinks about himself. And even in moments like 'We can take on this mountain' kind of thing there's still a reason behind it even if it's a stupid reason.

Which, while is in the nature of a lot of protagonists I wouldn't pinpoint as the primary reason mainly because I look to IC reasons and not OOC reasons.
 
208
Posts
16
Years
  • Seen May 10, 2016
Why be reckless if others punish you for it?

Why punish others for being reckless?
 
13,600
Posts
15
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Dec 11, 2023
Because he would rather be punished for what he did to help rather than regret not risking himself to save or help the person in need.

But he also realizes that being reckless isn't the smartest option so sometimes he tells them to be careful. But punish isn't the word i would use in either situation. He doesnt get sent to a corner for his actions or anything. Scolded, yes. But punished is usually an action that is more than just words which, for the most part, is not the case regardless.

And even though he tells them not to he still does it because as i said before: he doesn't think beffore he acts. The only thing that goes through his mind is 'i have to stop them/i have to help/i must save them'
 
208
Posts
16
Years
  • Seen May 10, 2016
I guess it goes back to the old saying, "Better Holocaust Hell than Fire n' Brimstone Hell".

But what about generally pleasant entertainment? Is this as good as we're supposed to get? This is what our options are limited to? Crap and Super Crap?

Crap - Being scolded for whatever.
Super Crap - Not acting like a protagonist who does things.

You're damned if you do, and you're god-damned if you don't.
 
Last edited:
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
I guess it goes back to the old saying, "Better Holocaust Hell than Fire n' Brimstone Hell".

But what about generally pleasant entertainment? Is this as good as we're supposed to get? This is what our options are limited to? Crap and Super Crap?

Crap - Being scolded for whatever.
Super Crap - Not acting like a protagonist who does things.

You're damned if you do, and you're god-damned if you don't.

Let me ask you something. Do you like Mary Sue (or in this particular case, Marty Stu) characters? Because what you're describing regarding your complaints about Ash sounds an awful lot like such a character. Heck, it even sounds a bit like you're a big fan of Wesley Crusher, since that's exactly what Ash would have to be like for you to not have any complaints about him.
 

Lizardo

Public Enemy
290
Posts
10
Years
  • Age 33
  • Seen Aug 18, 2016
I agree with the above post. From the way your posts read (and this is just the impression I get, so apologies if I misread you again), it honestly sounds a lot like Satoshi isn't supposed to have character flaws or do anything wrong. Is that what your saying, or is your problem just that the writers lay it on too thickly?
 
13,600
Posts
15
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Dec 11, 2023
^ these two post, really. And for the record, you may not enjoy his reckless actions but there are some people who do me even if they might seem absolutely ridiculous sometimes. It's just that whenever he does do these actions they just really speak who he is because of his huge care for Pokemon. Not that you in specific know what I mean, but eh.
 
90
Posts
9
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Jun 1, 2017
I want an ash that is like Red. ^^
And thats don't lose in every Pokemon Liga... :/
The Ash in the Orginal Series of Pokemon (1-5 Season) was good, i think.
But in another season is he ever the good guy, i mean i have nothing againist that personality.
But he is too good! OwO
 
208
Posts
16
Years
  • Seen May 10, 2016
I agree with the above post. From the way your posts read (and this is just the impression I get, so apologies if I misread you again), it honestly sounds a lot like Satoshi isn't supposed to have character flaws or do anything wrong. Is that what your saying, or is your problem just that the writers lay it on too thickly?

His characters flaws apparently call for girls to scold him (and anyone of them who travel with him have a bad reputation of being shipped with him).

But if being a Marty-Stu is what it takes to keep the girls from geting nasty, then so be it. It's the only other thing the writers haven't tried yet, so this should be interesting.

Or maybe I should write for the anime and show them how its done, since I'm can't explain things well enough as I do taking action.

BTW, it's not that I don't enjoy his reckless actions (and anything else people deem as wrong). I don't enjoy people who b***h about his reckless actions (both every girl who travels with him and the fans). Either way, I lost faith in the writers at this point.... As long as baby boomers are too young to know jack, the writers will dumb down the series and its protagonist to cater exclusively to them. It's not like we matter much to them anyway.......
 
Last edited:
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
His characters flaws apparently call for girls to scold him (and anyone of them who travel with him have a bad reputation of being shipped with him).

You do realize Brock has also scolded him from time to time, right? He's not a girl.

Besides, Fox got scolded by Peppy for getting into a dogfight with Falco in that Farewell Beloved Falco manga, Goku got scolded at the end of that Battle of Gods movie and nearly hit by Bulma as well for fairly good reason. And some of the stuff Ash did actually did deserve scolding from his fellow teammates.

But if being a Marty-Stu is what it takes to keep the girls from geting nasty, then so be it. It's the only other thing the writers haven't tried yet, so this should be interesting.

Actually, Marty Stu characters are considered one of the WORST character types to write, and are more likely to actually get an audience to extremely hate a character. Heck, arguably he already became one in XY, if some of Famon's comments are anything to go by.

Or maybe I should write for the anime and show them how its done, since I'm can't explain things well enough as I do taking action.

Fine, go ahead, but keep in mind that if the show ends up cancelled from your actions, and it's clear that your writing was responsible and not any executives, you have no one to blame but yourself.

BTW, it's not that I don't enjoy his reckless actions (and anything else people deem as wrong). I don't enjoy people who b***h about his reckless actions (both every girl who travels with him and the fans). Either way, I lost faith in the writers at this point.... As long as baby boomers are too young to know jack, the writers will dumb down the series and its protagonist to cater exclusively to them. It's not like we matter much to them anyway.......

First of all, none of the people watching the show are baby boomers, those are our parents or grandparents. Second of all, I never complained about him being reckless, especially when it was to actually save lives. I complained about his being reckless when it actually got or nearly got other people hurt and it literally had no real gain for anyone but himself (like the incident where he had Caterpie fight Pidgeotto, which nearly GOT Caterpie killed [and please don't tell me it was simply a rookie mistake. Even a rookie would know it's an extremely terrible idea to pit what looks like a worm against what looks like a bird] or his effectively being responsible for getting Pikachu injured enough to require an ER by throwing a rock at that Spearow. Granted that bit was partially also Pikachu's fault since Ash probably wouldn't have done that if Pikachu actually just followed his lead, but still...). And like I said, even the guys who travelled with him also told him off for it (Brock did, at least).

Now, if they were frequently complaining about things that Ash wasn't even responsible for at all, sometimes if anything it was actually THEIR fault and not Ash's, I can agree with you (that's in fact another reason why I hated Love Hina's female characters. Aside from being of the Hina stereotype both physically and in terms of characterization, they also frequently beat up Keitaru and humiliate him for being a "pervert" even when most if not all of those times, it was either a complete total accident to Kafka-levels, or if anything the times he sees them were entirely their fault [like forcing him to see their bodies and then beating him up anyways] or at one point they actually walked in ON him for a change and still beat him up anyway. Naru Narusegawa in particular was the absolute worst when it came to this, which is the reason why, at least for those audiences outside Japan, she was actually one of the more hated characters, alongside Kanako [who ironically was the one who actually avenged the constant abuse Keitaru had to endure under them] due to her more dark nature. It's also why Love Hina doesn't draw in any new audiences, because what they do to him is borderline, if not actually domestic abuse.). And for the record, having watched through Kanto, and having a fairly good recollection of it, I definitely am certain several of the times Ash got yelled at by the main cast were in fact instances that were Ash's fault (I think the only real exception was when he ruined a picnic due to thinking a sniper was in the bushes, and even then, it was understandable they were angry because there definitely was no way they could have known, and they clearly forgave Ash when the "Sniper" was exposed to be Todd. And the only other time Ash was ripped on for something that wasn't even his fault was in the fourth episode, and even that wasn't from any of the main characters [in this case, Misty, as it was before Brock joined the cast], it was from the COTD Samurai, even though the events of the episode were entirely Samurai's fault, not Ash's. The lesson Ash needed to learn wasn't even necessary, since he actually did attempt to capture Weedle, yet Samurai distracted him because he couldn't wait just a few seconds, and Ash even attempted to tell him that he was busy. That's why he's a scrappy on TVTropes.).
 
Last edited:
208
Posts
16
Years
  • Seen May 10, 2016
You do realize Brock has also scolded him from time to time, right? He's not a girl.

Besides, Fox got scolded by Peppy for getting into a dogfight with Falco in that Farewell Beloved Falco manga, Goku got scolded at the end of that Battle of Gods movie and nearly hit by Bulma as well for fairly good reason. And some of the stuff Ash did actually did deserve scolding from his fellow teammates.



Actually, Marty Stu characters are considered one of the WORST character types to write, and are more likely to actually get an audience to extremely hate a character. Heck, arguably he already became one in XY, if some of Famon's comments are anything to go by.



Fine, go ahead, but keep in mind that if the show ends up cancelled from your actions, and it's clear that your writing was responsible and not any executives, you have no one to blame but yourself.



First of all, none of the people watching the show are baby boomers, those are our parents or grandparents. Second of all, I never complained about him being reckless, especially when it was to actually save lives. I complained about his being reckless when it actually got or nearly got other people hurt and it literally had no real gain for anyone but himself (like the incident where he had Caterpie fight Pidgeotto, which nearly GOT Caterpie killed [and please don't tell me it was simply a rookie mistake. Even a rookie would know it's an extremely terrible idea to pit what looks like a worm against what looks like a bird] or his effectively being responsible for getting Pikachu injured enough to require an ER by throwing a rock at that Spearow. Granted that bit was partially also Pikachu's fault since Ash probably wouldn't have done that if Pikachu actually just followed his lead, but still...). And like I said, even the guys who travelled with him also told him off for it (Brock did, at least).

Now, if they were frequently complaining about things that Ash wasn't even responsible for at all, sometimes if anything it was actually THEIR fault and not Ash's, I can agree with you (that's in fact another reason why I hated Love Hina's female characters. Aside from being of the Hina stereotype both physically and in terms of characterization, they also frequently beat up Keitaru and humiliate him for being a "pervert" even when most if not all of those times, it was either a complete total accident to Kafka-levels, or if anything the times he sees them were entirely their fault [like forcing him to see their bodies and then beating him up anyways] or at one point they actually walked in ON him for a change and still beat him up anyway. Naru Narusegawa in particular was the absolute worst when it came to this, which is the reason why, at least for those audiences outside Japan, she was actually one of the more hated characters, alongside Kanako [who ironically was the one who actually avenged the constant abuse Keitaru had to endure under them] due to her more dark nature. It's also why Love Hina doesn't draw in any new audiences, because what they do to him is borderline, if not actually domestic abuse.). And for the record, having watched through Kanto, and having a fairly good recollection of it, I definitely am certain several of the times Ash got yelled at by the main cast were in fact instances that were Ash's fault (I think the only real exception was when he ruined a picnic due to thinking a sniper was in the bushes, and even then, it was understandable they were angry because there definitely was no way they could have known, and they clearly forgave Ash when the "Sniper" was exposed to be Todd. And the only other time Ash was ripped on for something that wasn't even his fault was in the fourth episode, and even that wasn't from any of the main characters [in this case, Misty, as it was before Brock joined the cast], it was from the COTD Samurai, even though the events of the episode were entirely Samurai's fault, not Ash's. The lesson Ash needed to learn wasn't even necessary, since he actually did attempt to capture Weedle, yet Samurai distracted him because he couldn't wait just a few seconds, and Ash even attempted to tell him that he was busy. That's why he's a scrappy on TVTropes.).

Fine I will take that risk and write something better. And besides, you would be quite surprised. But either way, all the younger generation (the people I was referring to before) care about are the pokemon, so it would be really hard to make them lose interest. You would have to be quite the mediocre writer to screw up Pokemon, especially for younger fans still in single digits.
 
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
Fine I will take that risk and write something better. And besides, you would be quite surprised. But either way, all the younger generation (the people I was referring to before) care about are the pokemon, so it would be really hard to make them lose interest. You would have to be quite the mediocre writer to screw up Pokemon, especially for younger fans still in single digits.

That part I'll agree with you there. I'm not so sure that the younger generation cares that much about the Pokémon themselves. Otherwise, they wouldn't even have the regional leagues anymore, they'd just have Ash studying the Pokémon and giving up on his gym quest for research. Pulling a Gary Oak in other words.
 
208
Posts
16
Years
  • Seen May 10, 2016
That part I'll agree with you there. I'm not so sure that the younger generation cares that much about the Pokémon themselves. Otherwise, they wouldn't even have the regional leagues anymore, they'd just have Ash studying the Pokémon and giving up on his gym quest for research. Pulling a Gary Oak in other words.

Then there's the matter of the Japanese writers and their integrity. They're not going to give up that plot device for Ash (but I doubt they'll actually follow up on it and make it an actual thing). To put it simply, Ash's main activities involve battling other trainers and traveling, so at this point, it seems like they're just using his goal as an excuse plot. And wouldn't be long before people (slightly older fans) get suspicious.

But there's always the Toriko personality. Ash could always be bad*ss like him and Naruto.
 
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
Then there's the matter of the Japanese writers and their integrity. They're not going to give up that plot device for Ash (but I doubt they'll actually follow up on it and make it an actual thing). To put it simply, Ash's main activities involve battling other trainers and traveling, so at this point, it seems like they're just using his goal as an excuse plot. And wouldn't be long before people (slightly older fans) get suspicious.

But there's always the Toriko personality. Ash could always be bad*ss like him and Naruto.

I think even the target audience is getting at the very least suspicious, based on the bad ratings. They definitely need to actually HAVE Ash win a league (you know, pretty much the entire point of becoming a Pokémon Master since DP), especially if this turns out to be the last generation, at least regarding the Anime (I doubt it would be the last generation for the games, though. Mario, Zelda, Sonic and even Mega Man managed to far outlive the TV shows that effectively acted as advertising agents for the games, and if they could pull it off, so could Pokémon).
 
Back
Top