To be perfectly honest, I don't know where you guys are coming from and I'm not sure if that's because I'm misunderstanding you or because this is just ♥♥♥♥ing dumb. My post in the mra thread pretty much sums up my thoughts and hopefully it (and the other quoted posts) will get the ball rolling:
Yes. This. This is perfect.
Alex: This is not extremist at all. I agree with you that the ultimate goal of all of these movements is equality with no one distinguishing between races, genders, sexual orientations, etc. But the reality is that we are extremely far from achieving this. Before we can remove these barriers between people, there needs to be equality. And the fact of the matter is the white men have way more rights and privileges than the rest of us. Fighting only generally for "human rights" ignores the specific issues faced by specific oppressed groups. This is true even within specific movements. For example, the original feminist movement was focused very intently on middle-class, white women. And eventually people realized that "feminism" was too general - people needed to fight specifically for the rights of Black women, and Hispanic women, and lesbians, etc., etc., etc., because the issues faced by these specific groups are varied and nuanced and cannot be solved with one general, blanket solution.
And yes, people are more likely to fight for the rights of groups that they belong to. That's just human nature. I think it's important that people are conscious of and aware of movements that don't directly impact them, but it's much easier to fight for something you yourself have experienced. And to some extent, this might be best. I'm White. I have no idea what it's like to be an ethnic minority and I never will. So, while I can support these rights movements, I will never really be an expert on exactly what changes are needed the way someone who belongs to the community will. So I agree, if I was a man, I wouldn't be as convicted a feminist as I am (note please that I'm using feminism to mean a movement towards EQUALITY - I do not in any way believe that women are better than men, and part of feminism to me is also making sure that men are treated equally - for example, if we accept women in high-paying positions, perhaps this will contribute to reducing the bias against men raising children alone). And sometimes this bothers me. I try very hard to remember that there are so many other movements that I need to support. But, when you're a part of something, it's easier to understand, and sometimes you feel like that's where you're the most useful. I'm a woman, so I'm an expert on being a woman, so I feel like I can really be influential as a feminist.
In the end, yes, it is important that we fight for general human rights. But in addition to that, we need to realize that the issues faced by different groups are incredibly diverse, and all of these problems need to be addressed specifically. And if you still don't agree with this, and you are a white man, you're just going to have to trust me. You are part of a very privileged group, and you can be sympathetic, and helpful, and I am not saying that you aren't fighting for the rights of others, because from what I've heard from most of the people here, you are, but there will always be a little part of being part of a historically oppressed group that you can never understand. So please, at least consider this perspective. You don't have to accept it, but please think about it.
As you can probably tell, I'm very passionate about this, haha. I am always happy to talk more with people about it, so long as we can keep it civil.
