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Crazy "Christian" pastor prays for God to "rip out" Caitlyn Jenner's heart!

Somewhere_

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I believe that Christ is my savior, though I don't follow a Church. I also don't follow religion, reason being it has split into several different ones.

I believe Christ is my savior as well. When I move out I think I will go non-denominational. I think each denomination is a religion. I think maybe some aren't, like maybe some presbyterian churches because they dont add or take away anything from the Bible and stuff like that. Or maybe I am just biased because I attend a presbyterian church. Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with God.

I think going to church is a good thing because Christians come together as the body of Christ and to worship, which is what it is meant to be.
 

Her

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yawn the bible passages on homosexuality (particularly new testament) that we know today are corrupted due to a mistranslation of the greek translation that formed one of the original translations of the bible and thus willfully ignoring this fact is simply using willful ignorance to hide your own hatred and prejudice yawn
 

DarkSkys

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I believe Christ is my savior as well. When I move out I think I will go non-denominational. I think each denomination is a religion. I think maybe some aren't, like maybe some presbyterian churches because they dont add or take away anything from the Bible and stuff like that. Or maybe I am just biased because I attend a presbyterian church. Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with God.

I think going to church is a good thing because Christians come together as the body of Christ and to worship, which is what it is meant to be.
Different teachings in different churches. I rarely go now. I mainly go if I have nothing else to do.
 

shadowmoon522

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I agree 100%. This pastor is clearly deluded and gets things wrong.

I am against homosexual marriage and do not support it because that is not how marriage is defined by God. I believe homosexual actions are a sin. However, that does not mean homosexuals are not human or deserve worse treatment than I. They simply sin differently- if they deserve such persecution, than I should as well because I tend to be prideful. They just sin differently- they aren't any different from anyone else. The Bible says to love EVERYONE, not just certain people. I would be happy to be friends with a homosexual or transgender, just as anyone else. That does NOT mean I am homophobic, so dont get me wrong.

That guy really needs to read his Bible.
the bible was written by human hands, every part that says anything about it saying anything about it was written with human arrogance. look at these 2:
Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
Romans 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
the first one says its punishable by death. this is in the same book that says murder is a sin.
the second one says its unnatural, which has already been proven false by ducks, black swans, penguins, vultures, dolphins, lions, sheep... it happens quite a lot in nature. and not just with male on male, but female on female as well.
as for marriage, thats a human only thing. sure there are animals that commit to each other for long periods of time, but theres no actual marriage. anything in the bible that says "is natural" is written in the biased view of that author of that book.
you have to remember that the bible will never be a good source on whats a sin or not because it was made by various people trying to shove their individual beliefs into one book & quite frankly where quite stupid in comparison to people now days. if you could bring one of them back to our time, i can almost grantee they'd think they where a world where demons took over.
well, in a way they'd be right about that...
 

Somewhere_

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the bible was written by human hands, every part that says anything about it saying anything about it was written with human arrogance. look at these 2:


the first one says its punishable by death. this is in the same book that says murder is a sin.
the second one says its unnatural, which has already been proven false by ducks, black swans, penguins, vultures, dolphins, lions, sheep... it happens quite a lot in nature. and not just with male on male, but female on female as well.
as for marriage, thats a human only thing. sure there are animals that commit to each other for long periods of time, but theres no actual marriage. anything in the bible that says "is natural" is written in the biased view of that author of that book.
you have to remember that the bible will never be a good source on whats a sin or not because it was made by various people trying to shove their individual beliefs into one book & quite frankly where quite stupid in comparison to people now days. if you could bring one of them back to our time, i can almost grantee they'd think they where a world where demons took over.
well, in a way they'd be right about that...

http://creation.com/homosexual-animals Explains homosexuality in nature. I will not debate the other points made in the article about creation and political agenda because that is off-topic.

And Leviticus is old testament. Those laws have been fulfilled and Christians do not have to follow them. For example, it is a common misconception that Christians "have" to tithe because it is in these books with laws.

And the authors of the Bible did not should their individual beliefs. Sure, there personal writing style is used, but the that was not their goal. Their goal was to take what God wanted them to and put it in there, which is why there is a lack of contradictory verses (yes, it appears there area a TON, but a 2 second google search has the refutes to all of those "contradictory" verses). Not to mention, many of these are just recordings of history.
 

PkmnTrainerElio

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isn't he sort of perverted because you said he was staring at posters of justin bieber and stuff?

For some reason I think that he probably started out as a nice guy, but idk what would make him think like this. There is no way he completed his studies of the bible and stuff filled with all of this hatred...

Yes, that's why "these videos" is bold, it's a link to the creep's obsession with Justin.
 

DarkSkys

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If we were to look up the original bible, I bet nobody here could read it. I don't even own a King James bible, just the Holy Bible.
 

shadowmoon522

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If we were to look up the original bible, I bet nobody here could read it. I don't even own a King James bible, just the Holy Bible.
true & parts of the original was left out

And the authors of the Bible did not should their individual beliefs. Sure, there personal writing style is used, but the that was not their goal. Their goal was to take what God wanted them to and put it in there, which is why there is a lack of contradictory verses (yes, it appears there area a TON, but a 2 second google search has the refutes to all of those "contradictory" verses). Not to mention, many of these are just recordings of history.
there as much proof that a 4th or 5th dimensional beings influenced anything in that book as there is dragons of dragons existing. Christianity split from Judaism, Greek mythology predated that & ancient Egyptian predated Greek mythology. Greek mythology took & adapted stuff from Egyptian mythology.
both Christan & roman mythology took & adapted stuff from Greek mythology.
christian mythology then proceed to integrate various cultist beliefs into itself in order to integrate these cults into Christianity. even the very concept of hell isn't even a part of christian religion. its from the divine comedy, dante's inferno.
all religions and belief in the existence of a god or gods started with the epic of gilgamesh.
Christianity is a mixture of various religions into one. jesus based on horus, much like how hyperion(marvel comics) was based on superman. the garden of eden & the genesis flood and eve being made from a rib are all based on the epic of gilgamesh. your beliefs should be your own and not solely based on a book written by human hands. you determine what you think is a sin or not. what would be the point of free will if your guided by a book that may have been made with the intention of control &/or brain washing.
 

Somewhere_

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true & parts of the original was left out


there as much proof that a 4th or 5th dimensional beings influenced anything in that book as there is dragons of dragons existing. Christianity split from Judaism, Greek mythology predated that & ancient Egyptian predated Greek mythology. Greek mythology took & adapted stuff from Egyptian mythology.
both Christan & roman mythology took & adapted stuff from Greek mythology.
christian mythology then proceed to integrate various cultist beliefs into itself in order to integrate these cults into Christianity. even the very concept of hell isn't even a part of christian religion. its from the divine comedy, dante's inferno.
all religions and belief in the existence of a god or gods started with the epic of gilgamesh.
Christianity is a mixture of various religions into one. jesus based on horus, much like how hyperion(marvel comics) was based on superman. the garden of eden & the genesis flood and eve being made from a rib are all based on the epic of gilgamesh. your beliefs should be your own and not solely based on a book written by human hands. you determine what you think is a sin or not. what would be the point of free will if your guided by a book that may have been made with the intention of control &/or brain washing.

It is clear that Jesus is not from Horus- its a common fallacy. I am not Catholic and I disagree with many Catholic teachings, but this article should clear things up. And the link regarding the Epic of Gilgamesh is under that link. I will net debate his point about whether the flood actually existed or not, or whether it was actually global or just local.

http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/

http://creation.com/noahs-flood-and-the-gilgamesh-epic

With Christianity being a mix of cults and stuff- that is both true in false. I believe the Catholic church as much of that, but not at the time period you are talking about. The Catholic church, whether through conquest or not, has a lot of influence. They changed many cult practices into the holidays we have today such as Easter and Halloween.

You look at the Bible the wrong way. Rather than a set of rulebooks, it is a set of guardrails.

Spoiler:


Please explain further on how the Bible is a control tool meant for brainwashing. I could say the same about music...
 

shadowmoon522

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It is clear that Jesus is not from Horus- its a common fallacy. I am not Catholic and I disagree with many Catholic teachings, but this article should clear things up. And the link regarding the Epic of Gilgamesh is under that link. I will net debate his point about whether the flood actually existed or not, or whether it was actually global or just local.

http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/

http://creation.com/noahs-flood-and-the-gilgamesh-epic

With Christianity being a mix of cults and stuff- that is both true in false. I believe the Catholic church as much of that, but not at the time period you are talking about. The Catholic church, whether through conquest or not, has a lot of influence. They changed many cult practices into the holidays we have today such as Easter and Halloween.

You look at the Bible the wrong way. Rather than a set of rulebooks, it is a set of guardrails.

Spoiler:


Please explain further on how the Bible is a control tool meant for brainwashing. I could say the same about music...
there is music thats been used to brainwash. its called subliminal messaging. the book of genesis is a mixture and the only thing out of that that could really hold any truth is the flood & that making eve from a rib thing and if that is the case the female was a clone of the male made by aliens. the existence of aliens is a hell of a lot more likely then the existence of a god.
all rulebooks and laws are made to be guardrails meant to keep most of society in line.
also the epic of gilgamesh was written in between 2150-1400 B.C.E the book of genesis was written around 1445 B.C.
it should also be noted that the book of genesis is written like a family history with more then a little arrogance &/or ignorance mixed in
 

Somewhere_

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there is music thats been used to brainwash. its called subliminal messaging. the book of genesis is a mixture and the only thing out of that that could really hold any truth is the flood & that making eve from a rib thing and if that is the case the female was a clone of the male made by aliens. the existence of aliens is a hell of a lot more likely then the existence of a god.
all rulebooks and laws are made to be guardrails meant to keep most of society in line.
also the epic of gilgamesh was written in between 2150-1400 B.C.E the book of genesis was written around 1445 B.C.
it should also be noted that the book of genesis is written like a family history with more then a little arrogance &/or ignorance mixed in

The book of Genesis would have been written prior the the epic of gilgamesh and moses simply edited it and compiled it with four other books. And the book of Genesis is an account of what happened, and family histories are a part of that account.
 

DarkSkys

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I will say this, the fact of the bible itself. I believe that it is not 100% correct since the change of language. Some parts could be missing. There is only 1 bible, why I don't own a KJV.
 

shadowmoon522

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The book of Genesis would have been written prior the the epic of gilgamesh and moses simply edited it and compiled it with four other books. And the book of Genesis is an account of what happened, and family histories are a part of that account.
heres the problem with that: moses didn't write the book of genesis. it wasn't written til long after he was dead.
genesis 36:31 Now these are the kings who reigned in the land of Edom before any king reigned over the sons of Israel.
before anyking reigned over the sons of Israel.
this proves 1: the book of genesis is just a telling of storys that may or may not have even happened
2: it could not have been written by moses who died before king saul took the throne and became the first king of israel the book of genesis is a bunch of story's showed together and altered to better fit each other. odds are, most of the book of genesis is just a bunch of story's told by way of mouth thus leading to a couple of things from the epic of gilgamesh being mistaken for being a christian thing. if its made by human hands, its subject to human error.
 

Somewhere_

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heres the problem with that: moses didn't write the book of genesis. it wasn't written til long after he was dead.
genesis 36:31 Now these are the kings who reigned in the land of Edom before any king reigned over the sons of Israel.
before anyking reigned over the sons of Israel.
this proves 1: the book of genesis is just a telling of storys that may or may not have even happened
2: it could not have been written by moses who died before king saul took the throne and became the first king of israel the book of genesis is a bunch of story's showed together and altered to better fit each other. odds are, most of the book of genesis is just a bunch of story's told by way of mouth thus leading to a couple of things from the epic of gilgamesh being mistaken for being a christian thing. if its made by human hands, its subject to human error.

There was no Christianity at the time...

it was edited by moses, he didnt write it. What point are you trying to prove with king saul? And you saw its been proven it isn't from the epics of gilgamesh, as epic as they were. :P

It is subject to human error such as a spelling mistake, but deliberately changing the original texts is not. And God would have foreseen there were no major mistakes like translation and compiling.
 
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Mesopotamian/Sumerian culture predates the Israelites and their adventures in Canaan so simply put the Epic of Gilgamesh predates the accepted (supposed) time period in which the old testament of the bible would have been written, so let's please get this thread back on track. You can take your talk to VM's, if you want.
 

Anti

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This thread was ever on track in the first place? Look, I really hate to be "that guy," but I have no idea why this thread exists or how it has continued to exist for over three weeks despite very little of substance being posted.

The reason I descended from my high horse to post this is because these are exactly the kinds of "discussions" that perpetuate stupidly false binaries and lazy generalizations, even if these are never spoken and remain implicit. It's awfully frustrating that an issue as broad and important as LGBT [insert issue here: violence, employment/housing discrimination, marriage, representation in media, etc.] can get reduced to the circlejerk that is this thread, which isn't going to be challenging anyone's beliefs--wow, I never knew this transphobe was backwards!--and doesn't actually do anything positive that a sympathetic LGBT discussion might do, like raising awareness about [insert specific lgbt issue here] or encouraging empathy. I especially liked the part where people speculated that the homophobe/transphobe in question is a closeted homosexual and/or a pedophile. @_@ you know, slinging that around as an accusation masquerading as an irony isn't exactly being an a-plus ally, but whatever

I don't want to minimize what this guy could represent: I don't think extremists are irrelevant in the sense that these are the people who are going to be carrying out violence against LGBT people, and that's a very scary reality in the LGBT community. The problem is that that's obviously not what this thread is about. It looks more like hastily assembled moral high ground from which posters can sling mud at some random bigot for no purpose whatsoever.

Instead of taking shots at some walking straw man like this guy--does every LGBT/Christianity topic have to be like this?--could we have a real, actual discussion about the interplay between Christianity (or western organized religion as a whole) and LBGT people, politics, etc., which is a very interesting and multifaceted topic? As a (mostly closeted) LGBT person and a (mostly closeted, with some people anyway, haha) Catholic, it's an issue I certainly would love to talk about. It's much more interesting, at least to me, to go beyond surface-level identifications like "this Christian is a hypocrite!" and discuss why this hypocrisy is so prevalent, how it is changing and/or being challenged, how LGBT people of faith reconcile these two parts of their identity with themselves, how they reconcile with their family (if possible), how they don't, etc. Can't we do better than the discourse present in this thread? Please?

tl;dr: caitlyn jenner isn't an abomination, but this thread certainly is

So just to put my money with my mouth is (so as to not just be ranting about low thread quality and proposing topics but actually attempting to contribute to a discussion), here are my thoughts on the issue:

While I am a very sincere Catholic, I feel like the faith can lend itself to internalized sexual shame, which is made even more difficult when you're not the "ideal" straight/cis person. Being attracted to females and being able to pass as straight is convenient, but it doesn't exactly make up for years of accumulated shame about, in crude terms, wanting to have sex with a bunch of people around you. Some of that comes externally, I think--I think there is a ton of low-key shaming of male sexuality despite, especially for people who reject things that overly glorify it (fratty rape culture, or whatever)--but it still makes it a struggle. I still don't really feel like I've experienced a "normal" sexual relationship, if only with myself internally.

Even so, as many people like to point out, over the years Christians have picked and chosen what to take from the Bible and interpret literally. I don't feel any theological shame. It's more the Christian community as a whole that can be unwelcome. There is a reason I'm closeted, I guess.

I don't think that means that these two identities are fundamentally opposed. I had a very long discussion about this with one of my good friends and a sort of LGBT father figure for me. People choose to act on different things based on their own biases, even when they're trying to be objective. People are often hateful. That's just the way humans can be. I think it sucks that LGBT people are systematically oppressed, but I think trying to blame an entity is a bit of a fool's errand. I feel like, if LGBT people gained political power, they'd find their own targets of discrimination whether they meant to or not. (You can see this within the LGBT movement itself, which is hardly the monolith I've been implicitly depicting it as. It's not like LG have always been great to B, or that any of the three have been great to T, etc.) I hate to be so fatalistic, but I think there is a certain inevitability to hatred, so we do our best to minimize its impact and to police our own imperfections. I have not found it emotionally satisfying to try to blame something like Christianity for hatred, though I definitely understand why some people do/don't think they're wrong to do so.

I do think that there is a tendency to make lazy generalizations with an oppressor Christianity/victim LGBT [rights/emotional well-being/quality of life/etc.] binary (which is another reason I can't stand this thread). I don't know the demographics of the issue at all and I might be in anecdotal fallacy range here, but a good number of the outspoken conservative Christians I know are very pro-LGBT--at least the young ones. I am happy that it seems to be a generational issue, and whatever justified complaining you can do about slacktivism and bandwagoning causes and self-indulgent/fake "allyship," perfect is the enemy of good, and I'm glad it's progressing. I honestly think that a lot of Christianity/LGBT issues will decline as LGBT people in general become more accepted in society, even if that rate of change might be a little slower. I don't think "crazy 'Christian' pastor" will have any impact on that general trend whatsoever.

The political side of it doesn't interest me as much and I don't have anything thoughtful to say about it.

Sorry if this post was too aggressive. (Or, uh, off-topic I guess lol.)
 
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I think what you're talking about is very much a political issue, so don't get the idea that what you're saying isn't politically irrelevant - it is very much relevant. In fact, beliefs changing with time and generation is what forces change in how issues are expressed in mainstream politics. I guarantee you that ten years from now (actually heck, perhaps the next or even this election cycle), the mainstream candidates of the American conservative party will not be able to deny same-sex marriage nor to deny the validity of LGBT feelings or people (I think that's worded terribly, but I hope you get what I mean). According to some older gay people that I know (of), same-sex marriage occurred surprisingly quickly, and that's due to the political expression of those ideas you mention (that awareness should be raised, shame should not be felt, etc).

Personally, I do believe Christianity (as well as Abrahamic religions in general) to be at fault for much of the current hate against LGBT because, well, it's in the damn book! The Catholic Church has done much to create a coherent stance against homosexuality, something that other parts of the world just didn't have. Like apparently before Westernization in the 1800's, China just simply didn't have the concept of being anti-gay (according to Wikipedia)? Like perhaps there would be disapproval from Confucianism because LGBT wouldn't be following gender roles but there was no kind of equivocating LGBT with bad. I feel like most societies in the world have harboured some kind of ill feeling towards LGBT (probably due to the fact that they don't conform with heteronormative gender and social roles) but the Abrahamic religions just took it to a whole new level.
 
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