Official Feedback Request: Battle Server

[noa]

Well, personally- when I first joined, I immediately felt welcome. I was greeted by everyone and quickly became close to many people. However, that's probably because I really reached out to people.
That being said, not everyone is brave enough to enter a group chat so boldly, so I think it would be great if we all made an effort to make new users feel as welcome as possible, even users who appear to just be passing by. I really want the server to be a place that everyone wants to go to feel comfy and safe.

As for criticism... like Ben said, maybe we could tone down the memes and inside jokes just a little bit- those can easily be reserved for skype chats, PMs, etc, no? I'm not saying banning them entirely though. :) Also I know it's hard to stop when we get really silly, but we should really try and keep things pg-13, things can get umm, a bit... interesting in there. So let's all work on it, yeah?

I love the battle server, and I want even more people to visit!

 

[Nah]

The amount of memes and inside jokes doesn't bother me really. This is the internet, an overabundance of memes and inside jokes is how it works. Everyone's part of some group filled with those.

As for why I only visit the server intermittently.....I'm not sure really outside of I think I've never exactly been into live chatrooms for some reason. Sometimes it is a little dead when I've been in there though, but idk, maybe I don't always get on at the "right" times or something.

 

[Blah]

I agree with Ben on most of his points, except the meme stuff. Being funny and friendly are the plus sides of the battle server's chat. So I say, just meme it.

Dunno how or what kind of magic Noa worked when she first joined, but I didn't get greeted until about two weeks of solitary chatter or so down the line. I try to greet Sopheria every time I can because she was the first to actually greet me on the server. I was able to speak with people I had already known prior to joining the chat, but there is that close knit atmosphere and you are often discluded in conversations. So in comparison to other IRC chat rooms I've been to, it is different in that regard. You do get the feeling that you're talking to yourself a lot if you don't know the other members there. Maybe this is just me, because my personality is sometimes hard to handle, I know.

Unfortunately, I'm all out of ideas on how this could ever be remedied. It's just sort of how things are :/

However, I think most of the people there are really nice people. When they do talk with you, it's pleasant. Other IRCs I've been on have been filled with elitists and rude people (mostly, some were nice). So this was a refreshing change of scenery. I have had a couple of bad experiences, but those are beyond rare.

I do feel somewhat sorry for TeamBidoof and all the abuse he gets, but I'm partially leaning towards assuming he's just a big masochist and enjoys that kind of attention :D

Overall, the chat is also plenty of fun, but probably not the most easiest place to make friends in. It doesn't help if the first thing you should state in chat is, "Anyone wanna battle" or privately challenge a random member directly. Try to make an effort to be friendly to everyone, and don't be discouraged if you feel left out. You can always talk to me, I like aimless chatter :^)

It would be nice to not do Triple Metronome battles almost everytime there is a tournament though :P

 

[Nihilego]

I actually disagree with lots of the feedback here re: inside-jokes, memes okay i still hate memes, tight friend groups, etc. being a bad thing.

I get that it isn't easy to just enter into a new chat where everyone knows each other and has their own stuff to talk about, but the fact of the matter is that this is how almost every friend group works. People make friends, share experiences together, and enjoy each other's company in a way which is specific to that friend group. Asking people to just drop the inside jokes whenever someone new joins (or worse, take them to PM to make room for you) is like asking all of these people who've stuck around to make friends with each other to drop all of their progress and start over again just because someone new's come along. :\ I don't think it's reasonable to just expect people to disrupt their community so that someone new can get a free pass right into the centre of things. Like in real life friend groups, you need to start on the "outside", so to speak, and work your way in.

I can see how it's not completely welcoming to new users since I, like everyone else, have seen the same thing in offline life hundreds of times; nearly every friend group has inside jokes and inside knowledge of the group which other people simply cannot participate in if they're new. But that's just a fact of life. It is difficult and sometimes scary to integrate yourself into a new friend group, yet when you're on the inside of them you don't for a second feel like you're deliberately pushing people out. I can totally empathise with people on the Server when I think about the tight-knit friend groups which I've been involved in, both online and offline. A friend group isn't made from the sort of talk which allows anyone to immediately integrate; that's what defines it as a "group". Without that, it's just some people in a similar time and place.

While I was still regular-ing the Server, a trend I noticed is that the same people who were disappointed about not being integrated in were the ones who weren't trying to integrate themselves. In a tight-knit group chat, dropping the occasional "hi" or "how are you all?" or some random update on your life isn't going to work - you should involve yourself in the goings-on of the group and if you don't understand what they're talking about, ask. Make that effort to involve yourself in the friend group, to learn about what the inside jokes mean, to understand what the culture in the place is like. This might sound a bit harsh, but you can't just expect everything to go on hold there because you're new. It's more rewarding for you and the existing regulars if everyone takes time and integrates themselves properly. This is what builds a community and it's 10x better to integrate yourself into the community than to ask the community to bend around you.

As a footnote, I'm not at all saying here that new users shouldn't be accepted. Of course I agree that people should be polite and welcoming to new users and certainly, I'm not saying "lurk moar" (which is, imo, one of the greatest piles of elitist bullshit that you'll find on the internet), but I think that's about it. People shouldn't forcibly adjust their conversations to engage new users; while people shouldn't be made to feel unwelcome (also I know for a fact that the Battle Server does not actively discriminate against new users), it's their job to integrate themselves into the community and not the other way around. It's not a particularly nice thought, but it's just how it works and in the end, it's the way that builds the strongest communities.

 

[Melody]

As a somewhat inconsistent regular of the battle server I can safely say it's a great place. It's a ton of fun to hang out in and enjoy, but there's definitely an atmosphere that isn't so inviting to new users.

Thank you Ben, for voicing my largest concern with the server.

I think it's mostly because of how close everyone is, and whilst that isn't a bad thing it becomes super hard for new users to get involved and become a part of the chat. There have been a few great exceptions to this, but overall I can say that the battle server definitely isn't so accessible to potential new users.

It can be difficult; even for old hats like myself.

Amongst the memes (a lot of which I'm guilty for, I'll admit) and other inside jokes it becomes confusing for potential new users and honestly leaves them thinking... what. How can I get involved with the chat when everyone is already so tight? How can I be a part of this?

I will say however that the servers atmosphere has improved A LOT since I first joined. So how can we keep this up?

I don't believe it's the memes that are the issue usually; there's often a lot of attitude that has plenty to do with the fact that some people act pretty strongly dismissive of people who they think are unskilled. While it's one thing if someone has thoroughly removed all doubt of their lack of knowledge and intent to participate in good faith, it's entirely another when newbies are treated poorly simply because they are learning. There's an entire 'meme' surrounding users who are troublesome or problematic to some of the regulars; and in the past these users were often made fun of cruelly until they snapped. This of course ended poorly for said misguided user; as the mods on the BS are swift and effective. This is also often used to shame even regulars who are respected.

Well, I'm willing to bet that opening up the server to more of the communities we have here on PC would be useful. For example, when we can finally get the client added (which will allow us to add Fakemon) we can start to lure in some people who are interested in Game Dev games, ROM Hacks ect. Stuff that invites the community here from the forums onto the battle server. It'll help it feel less like an outside part of PC and more like an actual part of our community.

Toning down on the memes would be good too (Wow, can you believe I'm typing that sentence?) and would surely help at least a little bit, I think. They're hilarious but definitely are confusing to new users.

AND greeting all the new people. Some new users haven't gotten greeted at all in the past (it's gotten better, though!) which is a massive shame. I feel everyone should be openly invited into the chat and encouraged to chat with everyone. There have been times where I've seen a new user trying to get involved in a convo, but weren't really acknowledged at all. This is such a shame.

Those are my thoughts. I really want to see the server be more accessible to the community at large as it's SO good and I think everyone here would love to be a part even if they don't battle much. :)

While these will surely re-invigorate interest in the server, I also strongly suggest that many regular users; including moderators adjust their attitudes accordingly and do their level best to make the server welcoming and warm; as PC itself is. I acknowledge that some changes have taken place; but I'm still reeling from my own terrible experiences as of recently and haven't fully experienced much change yet. So pardon if I seem a little doubtful of that.

I actually disagree with lots of the feedback here re: inside-jokes, memes okay i still hate memes, tight friend groups, etc. being a bad thing.

While it isn't necessarily wrong to have in-jokes or closely knit friend groups; the behavior said groups exhibit around these things is of paramount importance. It is my opinion that the groups on the server have not acted with much consideration of newcomers nor do they oft try to reach out. Worse is the treatment of "outsiders" of their group; which is usually cold and not very friendly at all. Not going to lie; I've seen a few newbies "outsider-ed" right off the server.

I get that it isn't easy to just enter into a new chat where everyone knows each other and has their own stuff to talk about, but the fact of the matter is that this is how almost every friend group works. People make friends, share experiences together, and enjoy each other's company in a way which is specific to that friend group. Asking people to just drop the inside jokes whenever someone new joins (or worse, take them to PM to make room for you) is like asking all of these people who've stuck around to make friends with each other to drop all of their progress and start over again just because someone new's come along. :\ I don't think it's reasonable to just expect people to disrupt their community so that someone new can get a free pass right into the centre of things. Like in real life friend groups, you need to start on the "outside", so to speak, and work your way in.

I can see how it's not completely welcoming to new users since I, like everyone else, have seen the same thing in offline life hundreds of times; nearly every friend group has inside jokes and inside knowledge of the group which other people simply cannot participate in if they're new. But that's just a fact of life. It is difficult and sometimes scary to integrate yourself into a new friend group, yet when you're on the inside of them you don't for a second feel like you're deliberately pushing people out. I can totally empathise with people on the Server when I think about the tight-knit friend groups which I've been involved in, both online and offline. A friend group isn't made from the sort of talk which allows anyone to immediately integrate; that's what defines it as a "group". Without that, it's just some people in a similar time and place.

While I was still regular-ing the Server, a trend I noticed is that the same people who were disappointed about not being integrated in were the ones who weren't trying to integrate themselves. In a tight-knit group chat, dropping the occasional "hi" or "how are you all?" or some random update on your life isn't going to work - you should involve yourself in the goings-on of the group and if you don't understand what they're talking about, ask. Make that effort to involve yourself in the friend group, to learn about what the inside jokes mean, to understand what the culture in the place is like. This might sound a bit harsh, but you can't just expect everything to go on hold there because you're new. It's more rewarding for you and the existing regulars if everyone takes time and integrates themselves properly. This is what builds a community and it's 10x better to integrate yourself into the community than to ask the community to bend around you.

As a footnote, I'm not at all saying here that new users shouldn't be accepted. Of course I agree that people should be polite and welcoming to new users and certainly, I'm not saying "lurk moar" (which is, imo, one of the greatest piles of elitist bullshit that you'll find on the internet), but I think that's about it. People shouldn't forcibly adjust their conversations to engage new users; while people shouldn't be made to feel unwelcome (also I know for a fact that the Battle Server does not actively discriminate against new users), it's their job to integrate themselves into the community and not the other way around. It's not a particularly nice thought, but it's just how it works and in the end, it's the way that builds the strongest communities.

If what you say is true and you empathize with these people; then why do you then again say "they weren't trying to integrate themselves." Did you not just explain you understood their fears? I believe I've already expressed earlier in this post how hostile the environment on the battle server can be. Hell, I'm not even a newbie and I'm regularly made to feel very unwelcome on the server. I'm not even an outsider by most accounts; I know the memes and silly stuff people say. I know how some of the regulars are; and I tolerate and love each for their own charms. Yet still; I feel as if the server regulars would rather not even acknowledge I visit. I sit quiet for long periods mostly because I simply cannot share anything during the banter without being basically poked at. Even when I do speak up; because I cannot simply abide the toxic behavior on the server, nobody really gives a crap. I hear "Well they're not breaking any rules" and nothing more. Worse is that this behavior is rewarded. The toxic users seem to be pretty quickly elevated in status; just for merely sticking around. What do I get for my troubles? A shunning. Nobody even recognizes that I'm even trying to be a force for improvement. Instead I get no sympathy, no help, and even people I could consider friends won't even do anything but hand wave it off.

 

[wolf]

When you guys suggest greeting more people, do you mean responding to hellos or greeting everyone who joins? I find the latter to be unnecessary, as that's a lot of hellos lol. I doubt users expect to be greeted if they don't even bother to say "hi" themselves. However, when I'm looking at the server I always respond to people who say hi. I rarely, if ever, see users' greetings get ignored, but that's only from what I've seen. I can notify the BSS with a small reminder about this later.

Melody, higher staff have asked you before to keep logs of any discrimination you've experienced. Please do that and report it to a higher staff or battle server senior staff user.

 

[punkysaur]

Achromatic where are ur legs I wanna touch ur feet and seek ur blessings.You have left me with very little to say

Anyways, as it is a battle server I just hope we have more stuff regarding competitive also. We have pcl battles going every now and then or people simply battling with the bot (infinite times). For me thats not sufficient for a battle server cause pcl is only for the pcl members and though battling the bot is a somewhat good exercise it wont help much in battles with real players. After some battles with the bot we can start to predict the way it goes on and then play keeping that in mind. But simply cause of the wide variety of players u have playing competitive u just get decimated cause of over predictions.

Another thing from when I was completely new to the bs.
The main problem i had at that time was the stark difference in the cultures. People just spoke about things that i couldnt make a head or tail of it(Honestly, I dont understand sometimes still whats going on).So in an attempt to chat with the people I just used to latch on random chats and say my bit. That might have evenlooked rude if it was a case of trolling someone.
This is why many newcomers find ot hard to stick to the bss for a long time.Very few have the will to wait to understand the manner in which the bs runs.
Though welcoming everyone sounds good the real problem is what next.Does one really want to be a ppart of bss for a long time.

 

[Lucario]

I'm a newb to the battle server, and one thing I want cleared up is if pokecommbot is really a bot? because he/she/it seems to start battles sometimes.

 

[Dragon]

I don't believe it's the memes that are the issue usually; there's often a lot of attitude that has plenty to do with the fact that some people act pretty strongly dismissive of people who they think are unskilled. While it's one thing if someone has thoroughly removed all doubt of their lack of knowledge and intent to participate in good faith, it's entirely another when newbies are treated poorly simply because they are learning. There's an entire 'meme' surrounding users who are troublesome or problematic to some of the regulars; and in the past these users were often made fun of cruelly until they snapped. This of course ended poorly for said misguided user; as the mods on the BS are swift and effective. This is also often used to shame even regulars who are respected.

Can I see some examples of where people treat others differently cause of their... lack of skill or knowledge? Because from my perspective, everyone in the server is pretty willing on helping each other out. I know I certainly do, as well as a couple others like Archy, wolf, Castform, Anti, etc.

The only times where instances occur that I think from your perspective happened is whenever someone is at turn dismissive on the people trying to help them out. Because I can right off the bat tell you guys some examples of that happening, which yeah, maybe the memes on that regard can be toned down a bit because it gets a little too much imo, but I don't really think people on the server intend to degrade anyone purposely and without any reason.

While it isn't necessarily wrong to have in-jokes or closely knit friend groups; the behavior said groups exhibit around these things is of paramount importance. It is my opinion that the groups on the server have not acted with much consideration of newcomers nor do they oft try to reach out. Worse is the treatment of "outsiders" of their group; which is usually cold and not very friendly at all. Not going to lie; I've seen a few newbies "outsider-ed" right off the server.

If what you say is true and you empathize with these people; then why do you then again say "they weren't trying to integrate themselves." Did you not just explain you understood their fears? I believe I've already expressed earlier in this post how hostile the environment on the battle server can be. Hell, I'm not even a newbie and I'm regularly made to feel very unwelcome on the server. I'm not even an outsider by most accounts; I know the memes and silly stuff people say. I know how some of the regulars are; and I tolerate and love each for their own charms. Yet still; I feel as if the server regulars would rather not even acknowledge I visit. I sit quiet for long periods mostly because I simply cannot share anything during the banter without being basically poked at. Even when I do speak up; because I cannot simply abide the toxic behavior on the server, nobody really gives a crap. I hear "Well they're not breaking any rules" and nothing more. Worse is that this behavior is rewarded. The toxic users seem to be pretty quickly elevated in status; just for merely sticking around. What do I get for my troubles? A shunning. Nobody even recognizes that I'm even trying to be a force for improvement. Instead I get no sympathy, no help, and even people I could consider friends won't even do anything but hand wave it off.

I'm going to address these two points here, and ask you... are you sure you're not just going off the wall here? The BSS works very hard on coming up ways to make newcomers feel welcome, and I'm sure that no one intentionally makes anyone there feel unwelcome.

As someone who maintains a board where we all welcome new members of PC, I always tell them, "please don't be shy on approaching people; you can always approach me anytime!" or something like that, because I know deep down, I want to get to know new members properly, and I'm sure the people on the server do too. New members themselves have to make that step on introducing themselves to the people because otherwise, how would you break the ice? Now, lemme ask you: is it the members who make you feel unwelcome, or do you alienate yourself to make you feel unwelcome?

I used to feel the same way you do, like I don't feel welcomed or "part of the friends" or stuff like that, sometimes I get ignored, which is a horrid feeling... but over time I had to ask myself, what do I really do to try and make and maintain friends there? And honestly, I'm a quiet guy; I haven't made much of an effort. Which I try to fix now, and things have gotten a bit better. So, I just want to ask you, have you made a proper effort to get along with anyone? I know, the chat at times is pretty tough to follow, and half the time I'm like, 'eh I dunno what to say', but you could still PM users, y'know? PM me anytime in fact; I'm always willing to chat with you or anyone about anything!

Furthermore, you mentioned that toxic behavior is awarded. How and when? I know we certainly don't award people for that; Our moderators have been chosen as carefully as our voiced members, not just for their activity, but because how they resonate well with members in general, and a few other factors.

If it's true that you're not receiving the respect you deserve, then I apologize for that and we'll be certain to reinforce that, but, I just feel like there's just something funny about this: I think you're a lot like me - because I know you're a lovely and kind user who is always willing to help, so, you know, you should get along with people there because people like nice members! We do care about you and what happens to you. One time, even I sat down with you and discussed if there's anything on your mind or anything that I can help you with, you can chat with me at anytime. So, the part where you said "you got no help or sympathy"... come on, you know that's not true. We're, especially I, are always willing to assist you.

Ah, but, thank you for the feedback dear, it's really appreciated to see what you have to say - Maybe some specific examples or things like that can help direct us on where we should improve?

We're not perfect, the atmosphere needs work for sure, but we always aim to make this environment great for anyone.

 

[gimmepie]

Can I just add that whilst I often visit the server I am far from being a part of any "inner-circle" and I am also positively average as a competitive battler, compared to a lot of the regulars I'm downright terrible.

Despite these things, I am always greeted when I visit the server. I have never been treated poorly for my lack of skill, in fact many users have made an effort to help me improve (Archy, Aurora, Anti and Dragon spring to mind) and I'm generally included in conversations.

I think people who experience the issues of not being greeted, skill discrimination and exclusivity are probably contributing largely to their own problems by not introducing themselves/greeting the room themselves, being defensive when receiving constructive critique, having delusions of being better than they are and/or not actively participating in conversations themselves.

I'm not a good battler, not part of the "in-crowd" and I'm awkward as all hell and I have never had a problem on the server because I accept advice and participate in conversation as much as I can. I think if others made more of an effort in those areas themselves, their experiences on the server would likely improve.

 

[srinator]

free pizza and beer to all new users

 

[Starry Windy]

Maybe I'm quite late at sending some opinion, but I can evaluate PC Battle Server if I have to.

I think PC Battle Server isn't like what it used to be several years ago, because lately it's inactive to the point that sometimes I'm the only one being there besides of the bot, mostly in the afternoon (in the place where I live). That's sad because I'm sure it was more lively when I joined one several years ago, even in this time when I'm writing this, and I personally have no idea how to make it livelier if I'm the only one in the group.

But still, things have to be done, right? I think it would be great the place can be friendlier, and if there should be no barrier if anyone comes to chat or to battle, and if even those who came to chat are treated nicely and feel welcomed as well, please note that they may become interested in battles at times and have potential to become a good battler as well. Maybe we can start by making sure that everyone is involved in the conversation and stuffs, for example. But then, I do wish other people will be interested after all that has happened months ago...

And one more thing to say, um, with due respect, can you tone down profanity languages? Even though I get what the rules said, but then, sorry, I find it quite too common to find here nowadays that I didn't enjoy this place at times...

I think that's all for now, and I hope PC Battle Server will become better soon.

 

[Sirfetch’d]

Maybe I'm quite late at sending some opinion, but I can evaluate PC Battle Server if I have to.

I think PC Battle Server isn't like what it used to be several years ago, because lately it's inactive to the point that sometimes I'm the only one being there besides of the bot, mostly in the afternoon (in the place where I live). That's sad because I'm sure it was more lively when I joined one several years ago, even in this time when I'm writing this, and I personally have no idea how to make it livelier if I'm the only one in the group.

But still, things have to be done, right? I think it would be great the place can be friendlier, and if there should be no barrier if anyone comes to chat or to battle, and if even those who came to chat are treated nicely and feel welcomed as well, please note that they may become interested in battles at times and have potential to become a good battler as well. Maybe we can start by making sure that everyone is involved in the conversation and stuffs, for example. But then, I do wish other people will be interested after all that has happened months ago...

And one more thing to say, um, with due respect, can you tone down profanity languages? Even though I get what the rules said, but then, sorry, I find it quite too common to find here nowadays that I didn't enjoy this place at times...

I think that's all for now, and I hope PC Battle Server will become better soon.

I think a lot of the inactivity is just timezone issues. Our server has a lot of regulars, however they are really all congested into a few time zones. This leaves the server dead as can be during certain hours and unfortunately there just isn't much we can do about that. Not to mention it is also exam season and activity always seems to take a dip around this time of year.

As for your second point, can you give some instances where people have been using too much profanity? Excessive use of it is not allowed. I have not seen anyone do this personally, but I am not on all of the time. If you feel a user is degrading the chat with a little too much profanity it is very important that you poke a staff member who is on at the time about your concern.

Thanks for the feedback though! I'll be keeping an eye out and seeing what I can do about your concerns. :)