3rd Gen How does the Stone Badge boost affect damage calculation?

[Reginald Cosmic]

Hello. I am playing Pokemon Sapphire Version, and I don't see my question answered on the Bulbapedia pages for "damage" and "gym badges."

I was wondering if the Attack stat boost from Roxanne's Stone Badge is applied to the attack stat of my Pokemon at all times or just during damage calculations in battle? In other words, is the attack stat I see in the Summary screen while checking my party in the overworld also the attack stat used by the game to determine how much damage I deal (outside of raised or lowered stages, etc.).

Simply put, I hate fighting Elite Four Glacia's team, and I am doing a Flying-type only run, so as you can imagine, I'm worried about getting bodied by her Walrein. Then Norman handed me the TM move Facade, and before I could say, "Yeah, I'll be sure to chuck that in the trash," my mind turned to Swellow's "Guts" ability, which would actually make Facade very useful.

I'm trying to figure out how high a level my Swellow needs to be in order to one-shot each member of Glacia's team with Facade. Some might think the base power is double to 140, but damage calculation is more nuanced than that. It goes into the formula as 70, and then you multiply by 2 at the second-to-last step. (The last step is the damage roll from 85% to 100%.)

I've been using PokeHex to calculate stat values (eg, what if my Swellow was level 55, what is Glacia's Walrein's max HP and defense) , but I assure you I haven't used it to change anything other than giving myself Coins for the game corner, which is permitted over the appropriate challenge thread. I certainly didn't generate the Pokemon, or changes its IVs because... the IVs on this Swellow are actually really subpar. It's level 50 and has 99 attack in the summary screen.

So to cut a long story short: When using the formula for Gen III damage calculation on the Bulbapedia page for "Damage," do I multiply the attack stat from the summary screen by 1.5 (for Guts) and then by 1.1 (for the gym badge) and then by 1.1 (for the Silk Scarf)?

So my calculations say: ( (2/5 * 53 + 2) * 70 * (190.575 / 100) / 50 + 2 ) x 2 [doubledamage] * 1.5 [STAB] * damage roll (85% to 100%)

The above calculation is between 162.9 to 191.6 (I rounded these to the nearest tenth because I assume the game rounds mathematically instead of just rounding down in all cases).

190.575 is the 105 attack stat of Swellow (at level 53 instead of the current 50) * 1.5 for Guts * 1.1 for the Stone Badge * 1.1 for Silk Scarf.

TL;DR If you go to the Gen III damage calculation formula on Bulbapedia's "Damage" article, does the letter A stand for the stat after adjustments for Guts and the Stone Badge? I assume yes, but I need to know.

EDIT: I think the Silk Scarf actually boosts Power instead of Attack, but the result is the same. Also, I wrote it down wrong. It's 191.6 not 192.6. The smaller number (162.9) is unaffected by my error. This post was edited (twice) to correct the "TL;DR" version (and the number 191.6)

 

[Devalue]

Checked a Ruby save file. Looked at Electabuzz. Shows 114 Attack on the summary screen. Has 31 IVs in Attack, 46 EVs, and a Brave nature at level 48. Base stat of 83, also.

Attack = floor((floor(((2 * basestat) + IV + floor(EV/4)) * level / 100) + 5) * Nature)
Attack = floor((floor(((2 * 83) + 31 + floor(46/4)) * 48/100) + 5) * 1.1)
Attack = floor((floor((166 + 31 + 11) * 48/100) + 5) * 1.1)
Attack = floor((floor(208 * 48 / 100) + 5) * 1.1)
Attack = floor((floor(99.84) + 5) * 1.1)
Attack = floor((99 + 5) * 1.1)
Attack = floor(114.4)
Attack = 114

Calculated the exact value shown without badges factored in. Implies that you multiply the stat shown on the summary screen by 1.1 for damage calculations.

Also, are you sure about doubling the damage that late for Facade? Says "Facade inflicts damage. Its base power doubles from 70 to 140 if the user is poisoned, paralyzed, or burned." in Bulbapedia. Suggests multiplying Power by 2. So, assuming that:

Power = 70 * 2 * 1.1
(Facade * 2 * Silk Scarf boost)
Power = 154

A = 103 * 1.5 * 1.1
(Attack stat * Guts boost * badge boost)
A = 169.95

Assumes D = 100 here.
(((((2 * level / 5) + 2) * Power * A / D) / 50) + 2) * STAB * rand
(((((2 * 53 / 5) + 2) * 154 * 169.95 / 100) / 50) + 2) * 1.5 * rand
= 185.159 * rand
185.159 * 0.85 = 157.385

Winds up being 157.39 to 185.16 damage, assuming those parentheses are right. (Not sure about rounding. Usually rounds down, though.)

 

[Reginald Cosmic]

I was just going by the Bulbapedia article "Damage" which lists the value "DoubleDmg" as something you multiply after all the divison has been done for specifically Generation 3. The article for "Facade" does say it simply increases the Power from 70 to 140. The "DoubleDmg" value is not listed in the Gen IV formula for damage calculation, so I assume that when Gen 4 was in development, Game Freak decided to simplify the process a bit by simply doubling Power instead of making a whole new variable for the applicable moves.

I can only speculate, but it seems more likely that the Bulbapedia admins just neglected to mention "Hey, Facade doesn't work that way in Gen III" on the Facade article. I just don't think the variable DoubleDmg came out of thin air, and there are other moves that explicitly say they double in power (such as Pursuit if the opponent's Pokemon switches out).

I also forgot to mention this, but I'm assuming Walrein's Defense is an even 100. As far as I know, the Elite Four do not have EVs, IVs, or even Natures for their Pokemon outside of ROM hacks. The 100 value came form PokeHex, and I double checked the math, and it's 100.4 assuming zero EVs, zero IVs, and a neutral nature, so 100.

 

[Devalue]

I was just going by the Bulbapedia article "Damage" which lists the value "DoubleDmg" as something you multiply after all the divison has been done for specifically Generation 3. The article for "Facade" does say it simply increases the Power from 70 to 140. The "DoubleDmg" value is not listed in the Gen IV formula for damage calculation, so I assume that when Gen 4 was in development, Game Freak decided to simplify the process a bit by simply doubling Power instead of making a whole new variable for the applicable moves.

I can only speculate, but it seems more likely that the Bulbapedia admins just neglected to mention "Hey, Facade doesn't work that way in Gen III" on the Facade article. I just don't think the variable DoubleDmg came out of thin air, and there are other moves that explicitly say they double in power (such as Pursuit if the opponent's Pokemon switches out).

I also forgot to mention this, but I'm assuming Walrein's Defense is an even 100. As far as I know, the Elite Four do not have EVs, IVs, or even Natures for their Pokemon outside of ROM hacks. The 100 value came form PokeHex, and I double checked the math, and it's 100.4 assuming zero EVs, zero IVs, and a neutral nature, so 100.

Ah. Correct on Facade. Did not read the other variables closely enough.

Looked for a spreadsheet of trainer data. Found one [here]. Displays 116 Defense for that Walrein. Suggests stats beyond the weakest possible, as well as a Naive (+Speed / -Special Defense) nature.

Another source on important trainers having stuff: [here]. States a difficulty number for trainers in one of the comments. Set it to 255 for important trainers like the Elite Four. Gives them 25 IVs and 25 EVs in all stats for their Pokemon. Input these numbers into a calculator (plus a Naive nature). Spits out 196 HP, 106 Attack, 116 Defense, 122 Special Attack, 104 Special Defense, and 99 Speed. Matches the spreadsheet exactly.

Checked a random trainer with a Magikarp on the spreadsheet also. Had 0 IVs, but a nature (+Defense / -Special Attack?).

 

[Reginald Cosmic]

I knew that Glacia meant business. I guess I really can't one-shot her Walrein with Facade since my EVs are all distributed (meaning I can't use Proteins). I mean, I know I could grind to Level 60 or something, but I don't want to win like that, plus it'd be a lot of work. At least I got a Gyarados with Thunderbolt.