The Lando-I suspect test (Update: it's been banned from OU)

Dark Azelf · May 22, 2015

AmourPearlShipper said:
The thing is that the same thing can be said about Crawdaunt, Kyurem-B, Toxic Orb Hera, Mega Camerupt and many other common wallbreakers.

Please dont. You clearly havent read my post.

Anti said:
you're overestimating base 101 speed which is muk tbh, the only relevant offensive threats in the meta it outruns are bisharp (sucker punch lol), manaphy, gardevoir, and charizard y. lucario beats dragonite and gyarados and commonly runs priority. they both need speed boosting moves, realistically, if they want to outrun anything of note.

Celebi, Zard-X etc? Id say both are pretty significant plus a few other things in the base 85-100+ speed ranges that Luke couldnt touch without running + speed which makes it even weaker. Lando can afford to run + speed and STILL be a breaker, Lucario really cannot if its to do relevant damage, even in DP. Also how does Lucario beat Gyarados, dont they run intimidate and EQ anymore or something? :S

you say landorus has immediate power that landorus does not, but this is not true:

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 214-253 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Dragon: 211-250 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

it's almost identical.

Factor in Sheer Force, psuedo STAB on its coverage moves and thats why its "not almost identical".

Oh also the CC defense drops luke has to do to do damage (forgot to mention this) really hinder its sweeping imo sometimes and often puts it in idk stuff like the ubiquitous Scizor CB Bullet Punch range in DP, esp with Spikes and LO recoil etc.

don't want your offense to get clubbed by rp lando? don't let it set up and/or build a better offense.

I remember when i said something like this a long time ago, "just adapt" i think it was (in regards to Salamence in DP or some shit idk). You werent the biggest fan of that statement and i believe you refuted it, but couldnt you say this statement about anything from Darkrai to Deoxys-A too? :s

Anti · May 22, 2015

Dark Azelf said:
Celebi, Zard-X etc? Id say both are pretty significant plus a few other things in the base 85-100+ speed ranges that Luke couldnt touch without running + speed which makes it even weaker. Lando can afford to run + speed and STILL be a breaker, Lucario really cannot if its to do relevant damage, even in DP. Also how does Lucario beat Gyarados, dont they run intimidate and EQ anymore or something? :S

Factor in Sheer Force, psuedo STAB on its coverage moves and thats why its "not almost identical".

Oh also the CC defense drops luke has to do to do damage (forgot to mention this) really hinder its sweeping imo sometimes and often puts it in idk stuff like the ubiquitous Scizor CB Bullet Punch range in DP, esp with Spikes and LO recoil etc.

zard x runs dd, offensive celebi is ridiculously uncommon, and...the calc factored in sheer force already???

you're nitpicking the example too much. the purpose of the anology was to isolate a variable you were overemphasizing precisely because lucario is worse than landorus. the point is *precisely* that all of the other stuff you mention (sheer force no recoil etc etc) is compelling, but "it breaks multiple playstyles" is not, or else we'd have banned lucario who isn't broken at all? it's a thought experiment and you're removing it from its context. now answer me straight: why is "it picks what style it matches up well against" a problem? what is unhealthy about that?

Dark Azelf said:
I remember when i said something like this a long time ago, "just adapt" i think it was (in regards to Salamence in DP or some muk idk). You werent the biggest fan of that statement and i believe you refuted it, but couldnt you say this statement about anything from Darkrai to Deoxys-A too? :s

losing to rp lando means you're probably in bad shape vs excadrill, rain, and similar "offense breakers." i don't like "just adapt" when it is used as code for "you're all whining too much." i don't think the landorus suspect is whiny at all. i'm just suspicious of it because, for a pokemon that has been rhetorically positioned as so obviously intolerable and cancerous, people have sure not minded its presence for the last year+ of competitive. (not that this makes landorus not broken--the two are not related--i just view this test with a degree of weariness because of the bandwagon. it kind of goes beyond the suspect itself for me.)

also, if offense's only check to a speed boosting sweeper is pranksterwave thundurus, that's lazy team building. i think a balanced meta produces stylistic versatility, but i am not a fan of the types of HOs that have come out of this gen and think that natural checks to them in the meta like rain, sand, +2 speed boosting sweepers, etc. are not unhealthy for the meta. feel free to disagree, but that's just me.

Dark Azelf · May 22, 2015

Anti said:
zard x runs dd, offensive celebi is ridiculously uncommon, and...the calc factored in sheer force already???

I meant for Lando's other moves, Lucario doesnt get psuedo STAB on Crunch etc like Lando does on Wave etc, is what i meant.

The base 101 speed still helps in such cases, esp on double switch ins to pressure zard x or something, plus its not like offensive Manaphy and the like dont exist either.

why is "it picks what style it matches up well against" a problem? what is unhealthy about that?

My point was basically whatever style you run, you literally have to bend over backwards to check it/counter it no matter what style you run (all its sets). Lando emphasises this because it can run sets that specifically capitalize on different play styles (whilst still being effective against other styles) and what you use to counter/check it on said team archetypes (HO teams struggle with RP and if you bulk up your team to deal with this, shit like CM and Knock sets capitalize on this). This is unhealthy because it forces team match ups. One of the reasons i think this gen is terrible.

losing to rp lando means you're probably in bad shape vs excadrill, rain, and similar "offense breakers." i don't like "just adapt" when it is used as code for "you're all whining too much." i don't think the landorus suspect is whiny at all. i'm just suspicious of it because, for a pokemon that has been rhetorically positioned as so obviously intolerable and cancerous, people have sure not minded its presence for the last year+ of competitive. (not that this makes landorus not broken--the two are not related--i just view this test with a degree of weariness because of the bandwagon. it kind of goes beyond the suspect itself for me.)

also, if offense's only check to a speed boosting sweeper is pranksterwave thundurus, that's lazy team building. i think a balanced meta produces stylistic versatility, but i am not a fan of the types of HOs that have come out of this gen and think that natural checks to them in the meta like rain, sand, +2 speed boosting sweepers, etc. are not unhealthy for the meta. feel free to disagree, but that's just me.

This part is what i was alluding to earlier. Most people use HO. More people now use RP Lando than they have in the past so obv more people are going to complain about it now. Offensive players get what they want in regards to suspects and bans nearly always. You do the math. Sucks but it warps the voting. :\

Anti · May 22, 2015

Dark Azelf said:
My point was basically whatever style you run, you literally have to bend over backwards to check it/counter it no matter what style you run (all its sets). Lando emphasises this because it can run sets that specifically capitalize on different play styles (whilst still being effective against other styles) and what you use to counter/check it on said team archetypes (HO teams struggle with RP and if you bulk up your team to deal with this, muk like CM and Knock sets capitalize on this). This is unhealthy because it forces team match ups.

can you elaborate on the the bolded point and what exactly that means and how it manifests itself?

edit: i'm legitimately unclear as to what you mean, not tryna be an ass x_x

Professor_Jared · May 22, 2015

Landorus-I needs to go, and I am glad that it is finally getting suspected. Too bad the same can't be said of the Therian form. :/

Yoshikko · May 23, 2015

Professor_Jared said:
Landorus-I needs to go, and I am glad that it is finally getting suspected. Too bad the same can't be said of the Therian form. :/

i don't think there's anything remotely broken about lando-t...it's a lot easier to deal with

one thing that i haven't understood about these suspects and i still don't is where they draw the line of what's 'broken'. mega-metagross is apparently not broken enough to be banned but landorus-i is? i know landorus doesn't take up a mega-slot but this just seems weirdly unbalanced to me. i also feel like by leaving some of these broken mons unbanned they're keeping the standard really high and pushing what 'broken' actually means, idk if that makes sense. but it's probably true that it not taking up a mega slot makes a lot of difference idk.

wolf · May 24, 2015

I'm on the fence about it, but mostly leaning towards pro-ban. Mega Metagross can be considered good for the metagame since it checks the Fairies (not that I agree with that). Lando doesn't offer the same benefits for the meta; it's just a really good offensive Pokemon. Even if Lando were to get banned, there would be plenty of other breakers available. Manaphy and Mega Gardevoir still steamroll stall and other slow teams. I think the main problem is that Lando forces the opponent into a guessing game. You have to figure out what moves it's using for each battle and potentially lose Pokemon in the process. No other non-Mega Pokemon does this so well and has as little drawbacks as Lando does. e.g. Kyurem-B has big issues with survivability.

Anti hit the nail on the head about its downsides though. Earth Power is usually risky to use, and it's not spammable. Lando has very little utility outside of two roles (breaker and sweeper), and it can only choose one. I'm unsure if these are enough to keep it from being banned, but I'm thinking no.

Anti said:
If I had to vote, I would probably say no ban. I don't think Landorus is healthy for the metagame, but I also don't think it's broken...maybe.

Isn't that the main purpose of bans, to remove threats that aren't healthy for metagame? Bans should be about achieving the most enjoyable metagame (within reason). It's certainly subjective, but so is "brokenness."

Pendraflare said:
This suspect is nothing to surprise me. Landorus is pretty overused, but I would imagine the Therian form is worse due to Intimidate and greater Attack (even if the Speed isn't as high).

Landorus-I has a Special Attack stat of 172 if Sheer Force is taken into account. That's not even considering Life Orb, which further increases its Atk and SAtk to 225 and 229, respectively. To give you an idea of how good that is, Mega Mewtwo Y only has 194 SAtk. AND Lando doesn't take up a Mega slot nor does it take any Life Orb recoil.

So yeah...I don't think it's as bad as it sounds, but it's still pretty bad haha.

Dark Azelf said:
Landorus-I@Life Orb
Timid/Modest Nature
Trait: Sheer Force
- Rock Polish / Calm Mind / Focus Blast / Hidden power Ice / Psychic / Knock Off
- Earth Power
- Rock Polish / Calm Mind / Focus Blast / Hidden power Ice / Psychic / Knock Off
- Rock Polish / Calm Mind / Focus Blast / Hidden power Ice / Psychic / Knock Off

Don't forget that it also has U-turn, which is about as common as CM. U-turn gets decent damage on a lot of its usual checks and even the so-called counters (Mega Latias and Cresselia), and can put them in a really bad situation (Pursuit anyone?). Specially defensive Gyarados is the only true counter, but it needs really good entry hazard control.

Oh and the usual Sludge Wave.

KorpiklaaniVodka · May 24, 2015

rock slide too for mandi and av torn-t

Dark Azelf said:
Please dont. You clearly havent read my post.

i've read your post lmao. and... crawdaunt sets up SD and trashes walls like no tomorrow. even skarm/mandi take huge damage.
cube is impossible to switch into and is able to beat an entire stall team (even clef w/ iron head)
torb hera at +2 is really hard to stop, only clef can take a facade and can't ohko back
mega camerupt only works on tr but if you can trap the pink blob w/ gothi or lure it in with something such as exploud, the opponent may as well say GG

Dark Azelf · May 24, 2015

Anti said:
can you elaborate on the the bolded point and what exactly that means and how it manifests itself?

edit: i'm legitimately unclear as to what you mean, not tryna be an ass x_x

Basically, what ive said all along. You have to bend over backwards to counter it and even when you "counter" it, it can still fuck you, thus severely restricting team building to an extent most other pokemon simply cant or dont do. Again, another reason why this gen is team match up based, which is unhealthy.

wolf said:
Isn't that the main purpose of bans, to remove threats that aren't healthy for metagame? Bans should be about achieving the most enjoyable metagame (within reason). It's certainly subjective, but so is "brokenness."

Basically this.

wolf said:
Anti hit the nail on the head about its downsides though. Earth Power is usually risky to use, and it's not spammable. Lando has very little utility outside of two roles (breaker and sweeper), and it can only choose one. I'm unsure if these are enough to keep it from being banned, but I'm thinking no.

Sludge Wave, Psychic, Knock and Focus Blast (well the latter is shit cos it misses but w/e) etc are all very spamable moves. Especially knock. The others are spamable because its checks and counters are all hit reasonably hard by them and there is little risk in using them over earth power initially, pretty much because they have psuedo STAB from sheer force. Im starting to think Sheer Force and its effects are the main issue rather than lando actually haha.

Don't forget that it also has U-turn, which is about as common as CM. U-turn gets decent damage on a lot of its usual checks and even the so-called counters (Mega Latias and Cresselia), and can put them in a really bad situation (Pursuit anyone?). Specially defensive Gyarados is the only true counter, but it needs really good entry hazard control.

Ouch, didnt realize it ran that still. Thats even more of a case for pro ban because that also grants it momentum which on something like Lando is even more ridiculous.

AmourPearlShipper said:
rock slide too for mandi and av torn-t

I guess but Mandi doesnt beat Lando anyway.

i've read your post lmao. and... crawdaunt sets up SD and trashes walls like no tomorrow. even skarm/mandi take huge damage.
cube is impossible to switch into and is able to beat an entire stall team (even clef w/ iron head)
torb hera at +2 is really hard to stop, only clef can take a facade and can't ohko back
mega camerupt only works on tr but if you can trap the pink blob w/ gothi or lure it in with something such as exploud, the opponent may as well say GG

You clearly havent read my post in depth enough.

All those pokemon have combination several things in common and why they are simply not as good or effective as Landorus-I, those are

Shit typing
Stealth Rock weak
Slow as fuck

None of these apply to Landorus. Even then i can go on to further say, Landorus-I is usable and more importantly, ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE against EVERY STYLE. Something which the pokemon you mentioned are not.

Please dont use Gothitelle if you're trying to make people take your arguments seriously either. Its a broken pokemon that takes little to no skill to use and if you use it you are admitting to having zero wall breaking/team building skill, js. Which also means if you need to trap stuff with a broken ability like Shadow Tag, the pokemon benefiting from it are probably not very good otherwise at doing their job lol...

Also

KorpiklaaniVodka · May 24, 2015

Dark Azelf said:
You clearly havent read my post in depth enough.

All those pokemon have combination several things in common and why they are simply not as good or effective as Landorus-I, those are

Shit typing

Stealth Rock weak

Slow as fuck

None of these apply to Landorus. Even then i can go on to further say, Landorus-I is usable and more importantly, ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE against EVERY STYLE. Something which the pokemon you mentioned are not.

Please dont use Gothitelle if you're trying to make people take your arguments seriously either. Its a broken pokemon that takes little to no skill to use and if you use it you are admitting to having zero wall breaking/team building skill, js. Which also means if you need to trap stuff with a broken ability like Shadow Tag, the pokemon benefiting from it are probably not very good otherwise at doing their job lol...

Also

crawdaunt can sort of fix its speed problems with +2 aqua jet which ohkoes anything less bulky than AV torn-t (+ can even ohko with LO but it's kinda hard to set up)
cube is weak to SR... oh wait a minute lando is weak to Ice Shard, which I guess meant Weavile's rise in popularity... yet Mamo fell in UU??? not to mention bb, aqua jet, cb bullet punch and all the prio lando doesn't resist. Cube can at least take one Brave Bird and (at full health) a Bullet Punch. also fyi scarfcube does decently against offense while lo tears apart balance/stall
hera kills one pokemon per game if you have half a brain and completely demolishes stall once clef's gone.
m-cam threatens all playstyles in TR and can even beat chansey w/ eq provided it has knock off support

as broken as gothi is, it's still OU so ...

also exploud can break through chansey with fake tears + focus miss (it's one of the most underrated gimmicks ever) but it needs TR too

Anti · May 24, 2015

wolf said:
Isn't that the main purpose of bans, to remove threats that aren't healthy for metagame? Bans should be about achieving the most enjoyable metagame (within reason). It's certainly subjective, but so is "brokenness."

This is a fair point, but I think that healthiness as a concept in inherently subjective while brokenness is not. The application of brokenness to suspects is going to involve subjectivity, but I think you can say somewhat "objectively" that Mega Rayquaza or Moody are broken. I think healthiness is muuuuuuch more up to individual interpretation. Some people, like the person below, like the shitpile known as the Uber metagame. That poster is in the minority for a reason, but it would also be very arrogant of me to say that he is "wrong."

We might just be playing with semantics, but I guess I want to ban things that are broken. I think GuessZard is unhealthy for the metagame, but is it broken? Well...iffy.

It's just my view. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to view it as long as you are within parameters of reason. So, not "you guys are such babies *salt emoticon* unban Moody!" ~_~

AmourPearlShipper said:
crawdaunt can sort of fix its speed problems with +2 aqua jet which ohkoes anything less bulky than AV torn-t (+ can even ohko with LO but it's kinda hard to set up)
cube is weak to SR... oh wait a minute lando is weak to Ice Shard, which I guess meant Weavile's rise in popularity... yet Mamo fell in UU??? not to mention bb, aqua jet, cb bullet punch and all the prio lando doesn't resist. Cube can at least take one Brave Bird and (at full health) a Bullet Punch. also fyi scarfcube does decently against offense while lo tears apart balance/stall
hera kills one pokemon per game if you have half a brain and completely demolishes stall once clef's gone.
m-cam threatens all playstyles in TR and can even beat chansey w/ eq provided it has knock off support

as broken as gothi is, it's still OU so ...

also exploud can break through chansey with fake tears + focus miss (it's one of the most underrated gimmicks ever) but it needs TR too

Everything you posted has numerous disadvantages that Landorus does not. I'm not going to go through them because they should be obvious, but things like "Crawdaunt can't come in on anything and needs set-up to actually hit things hard with its priority attack--which is still resisted by a ton of common faster Pokemon anyway (Lati@s, Keldeo, Celebi, Serperior, Kyurem-Black, Venusaur-Mega, Altaria-Mega, etc.)" or "this Pokemon is barely functional outside of a niche archetype" (Fake Tears Exploud -__________-) ...and so on. I don't agree with some of James' points, but the comparison you're setting up is collapsing under the weight of the dissimilarities of its included Pokemon (i.e. Pokemon that can't function outside of TR).

The positions you are positing do not manifest in real games, especially with good players.

KorpiklaaniVodka · May 24, 2015

Anti said:
This is a fair point, but I think that healthiness as a concept in inherently subjective while brokenness is not. The application of brokenness to suspects is going to involve subjectivity, but I think you can say somewhat "objectively" that Mega Rayquaza or Moody are broken. I think healthiness is muuuuuuch more up to individual interpretation. Some people, like the person below, like the shitpile known as the Uber metagame. That poster is in the minority for a reason, but it would also be very arrogant of me to say that he is "wrong."

We might just be playing with semantics, but I guess I want to ban things that are broken. I think GuessZard is unhealthy for the metagame, but is it broken? Well...iffy.

It's just my view. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to view it as long as you are within parameters of reason. So, not "you guys are such babies *salt emoticon* unban Moody!" ~_~

Everything you posted has numerous disadvantages that Landorus does not. I'm not going to go through them because they should be obvious, but things like "Crawdaunt can't come in on anything and needs set-up to actually hit things hard with its priority attack--which is still resisted by a ton of common faster Pokemon anyway (Lati@s, Keldeo, Celebi, Serperior, Kyurem-Black, Venusaur-Mega, Altaria-Mega, etc.)" or "this Pokemon is barely functional outside of a niche archetype" (Fake Tears Exploud -__________-) ...and so on. I don't agree with some of James' points, but the comparison you're setting up is collapsing under the weight of the dissimilarities of its included Pokemon (i.e. Pokemon that can't function outside of TR).

The positions you are positing do not manifest in real games, especially with good players.

yeah i know lando is so much better but da made it sound like "it's impossible for offense to switch into gardy/lando not to mention bulky offense/stall" which is not true and many other pokes can do that.

fake tears exploud is a decent lure (same with EQ vs heatran since focus miss is well focus miss and many tran run protect) since TR teams seem to struggle with chansey unless running daunt or sf conk. something such as reuniclus fails to beat it since it generally can't fit cm and tr on the same moveset and psyshock doesn't 2HKO. cofag can't 2hko unless it's at +6 and needs LO to do so

daunt... well it fails against those mons, but it does ohko thundy, lando (-t), weav, offensive tran, scarf t-tar, exca, victini, lo zam and even chomp with some prior damage

also one question: what makes you drift away from ubers/ag? i think someone asked you this but not so sure

Anti · May 24, 2015

AmourPearlShipper said:
fake tears exploud is a decent lure (same with EQ vs heatran since focus miss is well focus miss and many tran run protect) since TR teams seem to struggle with chansey unless running daunt or sf conk. something such as reuniclus fails to beat it since it generally can't fit cm and tr on the same moveset and psyshock doesn't 2HKO. cohag can't 2hko unless it's at +6 and needs LO to do so

daunt... well it fails against those mons, but it does ohko thundy, lando (-t), weav, offensive tran, scarf t-tar, exca, victini, lo zam and even chomp with some prior damage

also one question: what makes you drift away from ubers/ag? i think someone asked you this but not so sure

look, i'm not trying to be combative, but every time you post in one of these threads, someone will make a point, and you make a counter that doesn't actually contradict the point but just lists irrelevant information or exceptions.

for example, who cares that aqua jet hits the pokes you mentioned? i was defending james's point that crawdaunt (and everything else you posted) is severely disadvantaged by its speed since so many pokemon resist its priority attack and it needs set-up to do any damage. "well it hits landorus." so what? the point i was defending still stands? crawdaunt STILL needs set-up, STILL can't get past numerous pokes that outspeed, and STILL has NO defensive utility (especially compared to its competition for a teamslot). so as much as i'd love to argue with you about whether fake tear exploud is viable (~__________~), i'm going to have to pass and implore you to see the bigger picture.

KorpiklaaniVodka · May 24, 2015

Anti said:
look, i'm not trying to be combative, but every time you post in one of these threads, someone will make a point, and you make a counter that doesn't actually contradict the point but just lists irrelevant information or exceptions.

for example, who cares that aqua jet hits the pokes you mentioned? i was defending james's point that crawdaunt (and everything else you posted) is severely disadvantaged by its speed since so many pokemon resist its priority attack and it needs set-up to do any damage. "well it hits landorus." so what? the point i was defending still stands? crawdaunt STILL needs set-up, STILL can't get past numerous pokes that outspeed, and STILL has NO defensive utility (especially compared to its competition for a teamslot). so as much as i'd love to argue with you about whether fake tear exploud is viable (~__________~), i'm going to have to pass and implore you to see the bigger picture.

the point is that crawdaunt is decent against offense (maybe i should've said "anything less bulky than av torn-t that doesn't resist it"). +2 aj is NASTY to absorb if you don't resist it. if you do, good for you, you get to beat it. so much stuff resisted scizor's bullet punch in BW, yet it's sd set was devastating. also bd azu is still a good set (yeah it resists a lot of stuff and has stab play rough) but suffers from similar problems.

also I KNOW LANDO IS X TIMES BETTER than the wallbreakers i mentioned, it has a much better speed tier, it has much better coverage and versatility. however saying "gardy (and Lando) is broken as fuck cuz offense can't switch into it not to mention bulky off/stall!!!!" is stupid af. i mean freaking rampardos can also do that.

Dark Azelf · May 24, 2015

AmourPearlShipper said:
the point is that crawdaunt is decent against offense (maybe i should've said "anything less bulky than av torn-t that doesn't resist it"). +2 aj is NASTY to absorb if you don't resist it. if you do, good for you, you get to beat it. so much stuff resisted scizor's bullet punch in BW, yet it's sd set was devastating. also bd azu is still a good set (yeah it resists a lot of stuff and has stab play rough) but suffers from similar problems.

also I KNOW LANDO IS X TIMES BETTER than the wallbreakers i mentioned, it has a much better speed tier, it has much better coverage and versatility. however saying "gardy (and Lando) is broken as psyduck cuz offense can't switch into it not to mention bulky off/stall!!!!" is stupid af. i mean freaking rampardos can also do that.

Explain. How is not being able to switch into something stupid af? Doesnt that mean something is broken if you are unable to do that? If you need to revenge kill something to deal with it, isnt that a massive giant flashing amber light that says "im fucking bullshit suspect me"? js

You're missing the forest for the trees anyway. Its all of the above aforementioned combined that make Landorus-I so deadly, not just not being able to switch into it.

Once again, Rampardos has shit typing, cant set up/switch in on anything and generally useless outside of gimmicky playstyles and doesnt really threaten to sweep anything well built with a good rock resist which is like....every team lol.

Bidoof FTW · May 25, 2015

Anti said:
It's just my view. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to view it as long as you are within parameters of reason. So, not "you guys are such babies *salt emoticon* unban Moody!" ~_~

How am I supposed to wreck noobs using 6 Bidoof without Moody? :(

I'm hopping on the Lando-I bandwagon. Who needs to have an opinion when everyone else makes sense Kappa

Detox · May 25, 2015

Right. Well, I'm going to ignore whatever the previous fiasco was about and give my opinion. Landorus-I is a pretty interesting case, and if I was held at gunpoint and forced to vote right now I'd probably vote to ban it. As Wolf said, Landorus-I is nothing but a great offensive Pokémon. Its individual components don't seem very broken, but when you add them up you get a handful to deal with. The various coverage moves (most of which are boosted by Sheer Force), Sheer Force + Life Orb boosts, and ability to handle different playstyles with the right setup move are certainly a good selling point for a ban, even if it does turn out to be a gigantic bandwagon. One could also that Landorus has no true "counters," but apparently people have been using Mega Latias and Cresselia to switch into it….and some have been using Mandibuzz for whatever reason.

It isn't as if powerful offensive Pokémon are a rarity, and seeing this thing go would only mean losing one of many. I cannot truly say that I feel that Landorus-I brings anything positive to the metagame that others do not already do. I'm expecting our guy to be banned, and if it managed to stay in OU I'd genuinely be shocked, unlike Mega Metagross.

EDIT: Ok I lied. Rampardos :| ... The Rampardos hype ended in 2008, just like my hopes and dreams did when David Tyree made that fucking helmet catch. Just let it go man.

Polar Spectrum · May 25, 2015

This was all very interesting to read. Fascinating debate when it's kept rational like the above.

If I had to weigh in, I'd say... eh well I wouldn't really weigh in on this in the first place for many reasons, BUT I'd say I'm anti ban if I were to lean either way. I'll catch flak for it but I'd honestly rather see Lando T go than Lando I. Yes; it can be played around - but in the current meta, we're mostly all playing around it. Unfair comparison, but we also had to all play around Aegislash. Which... was harder, but - I really just personally see and have to deal with much more lando t. Probably because doubles but shits annoying lol.

I actually haven't seen very much Lando I at all for a while.

Okay, I'll alter the deal; I'm not interested in seeing Lando I banned.

I would however really like to see a comeback for Lando C.

srinator · Jun 5, 2015

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ss-round-4-voting.3540007/page-7#post-6256922

YEAHHH ITS BANNED

Nah · Jun 5, 2015

And by a pretty good margin too. 75% said ban.

The Lando-I suspect test (Update: it's been banned from OU)

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Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣

Anti

return of the king

Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣

Anti

return of the king

Professor_Jared

Mr. Fish trainer

Yoshikko

the princess has awoken while the prince sleeps on

wolf

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA

Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA

Anti

return of the king

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA

Anti

return of the king

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA

Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣

Bidoof FTW

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Detox

Guest

Polar Spectrum

I'm still here; watching. Waiting.

srinator

Guest

Nah