Best Simple Collection and Deck Building Tips?

[jazee]

My kids are collecting Pokemon cards. We are going to start participating in a league so they can actually play the game instead of just collect the cards. They of course are collecting all the ultra rare cards. I've read up on basic game play and deckbuilding, although deckbuilding strategy recommendations seem to vary widely.

For someone just starting out is a good basic deck building strategy to have about 20 pokemon, 20 trainers/support/stadium, and 20 energy. The 20 pokemon should focus on no more than two types trying to match pokemone that have a certain weakness with pokemone that have a resistance to that weakness. Then there's this thing about 'trees' like you have one Stage 2, two Stage 1's, and three basics of a particular pokemon evolution line. Is this a good sound basic strategy for a beginner?

My second question is how best to accumulate the cards you want/need. Aside from trading, I see a lot of Ebay auctions where it is a randow drawing and you are guaranteed to get at least one EX, yada yada. That seems like such a scam to me because you could end up with a bunch of cards you already have! Seems like a better strategy is to find a seller on E-bay with a huge inventory and low prices and shipping for each additional card is either free or $0.25 and just buy a bunch of cards individually from one seller all at once?

I know my kids have plents of cards to build all sorts of different 60 card decks. But they will want to be competetive and I don't want them spending all this money on these ultra rare stage 2 cards and they don't have enough of the Stage 1 and Basic cards to have a good supporting 'tree' - unless I guess if you put a bunch of Rare Candy in your deck, then I suppose having a tree is no longer important? Just have a bunch of basics and a bunch of top-tier Stage 2 cards? I love how different deck strategies have gotten labels like haymaker. This is quite an interesting game and very complex when if comes to deck building strategies it seems.

Lastly from a collecting standpoint. I see a lot of these EX and Lv.X cards going on Ebay frequently for $10-$30 depending on the card. We've been careful to only buy cards that are playable in tournaments (playable in modified format.) As the game evolves, won't some of these expensive cards eventually not be playable also and therefore because almost worthless. It was mentioned to me that these days the cards are produced in such large quantities, even ultra rare cards, that their value is bound to go down, not up, it seems it is more about what is the latest 'fad' of what cards are the 'coolest' amongst all the kids and it seems to me that can change from year to year. Will Charizard EX be hot, in demand card fetching $50-$100 in 2 years? So is buying ultra rare cards on E-bay for $10, $20, $30+ a total foolish thing to do?

 

[Lordpenguin]

a randow drawing and you are guaranteed to get at least one EX, yada yada. That seems like such a scam to me

You are right - it is a scam. You yourself noted that some cards are competitive and some expensive. The cards no-one wants, that no-one will buy as singles? Sold as bulk lots or as repacks like this. While you may be 'guaranteed' to get one EX card, there are plenty of EX cards that are rubbish, and the rest of the cards will be rubbish as well.

Expensive cards that are competitive will generally fall in price as time goes on, unless they are very competitive, or become more so with the release of more sets. Once they 'rotate' out of modified, the price generally falls. The rest of the expensive cards are generally classic good cards or collectables. Unless you are particularly interested in collections, they aren't worth it.

To be honest, competitive-wise, there are two kinds of cards; broadly, pokemon and trainers. Good trainers are necessary whatever deck you build, so are worth investing in. Good pokemon? Well, it isn't necessary to buy the most expensive ones - you can have just as much fun (and success) with the lower-tier ones.

When it comes to deckbuilding, the 20/20/20 ratio is generally 'correct', although depending on the deck, less pokemon or less energy are acceptable. Trainers are very important, so maintain as many as you can. 'Trees' as you call them, are important, although it is less important to maintain a strict 3-2-1 or 4-3-2 mix than before. I have often seen competitive decks with 4-4-3 or 4-3-3 mixes. For two-pokemon only lines, 4-4 or 4-3. Cards like Rare Candy (Pokemon Breeder in my day :P) can replace Stage 1's, but you are really moving into technical strategies that require severe playtesting and maths. Sounds like you are looking for something a little more casual, so by all means play it, but in a more conventional 20/20/20 build.

I hope your kids enjoy the game! It was certainly the way I started playing tcgs, before moving onto Magic, which is slightly more mature in strategy and focus.

 

[jazee]

Much much thanks for the reply from someone, finally! I realize there is a lot of info out there and alot of this is just gaining experience. But it is nice to get some questions answer to get a basic heads up on certain aspects of the whole Pokemon TCG phenomenon.

My next question is do people go to leagues and/or tournaments with multiple decks and decide which deck to use based on what they see other players playing, or do they rebuild their decks at the tournament on-the-fly, or do they stick with one deck (or required to stick with one deck for the entire tournament? - I assume league lets you rebuild deck or not?)

Last question (hopefully) is what trainer cards do you recommend having and how many considering I've got to help 2 kids build decks. Like the Pokemon cards it seems some are more valuable than others. Seems if your deck strategy relies on Stage 2 then the Breeder/Rare candy is important. What else should I consider making sure we are stocked up on for building various types of decks?

 

[Mewq]

Well I used to play "trees" to but it is really ineffective a tree is like this : 3-2-1 u shuold instead play 2-1-2 , 3-2-3, 4-3-4 lines and play candy with that because of 2 things : it gets faster and you dont have the risk of having them prised. the numbers of the highest evolutions should match the numbers of basics. And it is often not complex strategys we are talking about but i will talk more about that later.

Important trainers are :

Bebes search (search card that you can look for evolutions ans stuff with)
Roseannes resarch (Basic pokemon drawer and energy searcher)
Rare Candy (nerver ever build a stage 2 deck without it, even many stage 1 decks run it)
Quick ball (if you are running a turn 2 deck this is the card , it is fast and you can play several in one turn(a turn 2 deck is a deck that sets up turn 2 ))
Draw cards (there are several options here. you can go for disrupting your opponent with cards like Team galactics mars, or sheer draw power with cards like stevens advice or cards that discard like Tv reporter or felicitys drawing)
Claydol GE (this is a staple card in many players decks that provide drawing every turn , very highly recommended)
Starters (Starters help you set up and witch you choose is up to you. The common are Pahirisu GE (3 basics) Stantler (searches for supporters) Furret SW (altouh its a stage 1 it can look for 2 of ANY card) and many more. )

Most people got some decks to choose from but most often they pick one before they go to a tournament. Myself I prefer to just having one deck that i try to make perfect (and i have to say i have done pretty well with my last creation a wonderful T2B that took me to 4th place in the swedish nats) but it depends on how you want to do.

The decks out there now arent really that complex. well ofcourse you got to know your cards but they often revolve around just one pokemon. i will give you a list as an example

pokemon :

4-2-4 Empoleon DP1
4-2 Furret SW
(1-0-1 Nidoqueen DF)

this pokemon line got my friend a top cut in masters and it is not very complex at all
you use furret to search for candys and evolutions and the use trainers to get basics. often this was set up with 2 empoleons by turn 3-4. and as you se not complex att al
nidoqueen is a so called tech that is good to have but not important to the strategy.
(its pokepower lets you search your deck for any pokemon)

And to the question about ebay:
did you find lvl.xs for only 10$ ?!?! that is so cheap!


and just because you want to know ow to make a deck competetiv, here is what you are going to be facing:

GG (Gallade and gardevoir)
Magmortar (they use massive amounts of energy to dish out awesome damage)
T2B (turn 2 banette , fast and deadly)
Empoleon (straight empoleon)
Darkrai / Honchkrow (if your in junoirs or seniors this will be a " dark" threat)

 

[Lordpenguin]

Its best to analyze the metagame (what people are playing), and then choose a deck (either one of the popular ones, or one you think will be good against them). Build it, and practice with it. Its best not to change decks so often, because you lose your understanding of them. While it may seem that a deck is simple, really, all decks get better with practice.

 

[jazee]

Its best to analyze the metagame (what people are playing), and then choose a deck (either one of the popular ones, or one you think will be good against them). Build it, and practice with it. Its best not to change decks so often, because you lose your understanding of them. While it may seem that a deck is simple, really, all decks get better with practice.

Excellent point. One more question. Some of the best cards to put in a deck a pretty rare. And I assume in many cases you want to have more than one of them in the deck. I'm sort of burnt out on buying rares and ultra-rares for my kids. They are still in 'collecting' mode and we are about to start participating in a local league. I've listed the more rare cards we own one of already below. I want to buy a few more duplicates of what will most likely prove to be good for deckbuilding. I know it is variable, but it is like we have one of everything and I know we will want to build some decks that have more than one. So out of these cards what would you recommend we have duplicates on-hand of? (Please don't say every card. :)

122 Lucario Lv.X Mysterious Treasures
106 Palkia Lv.X Great Encounters
104 Darkrai Lv.X Great Encounters
5 Infernape Diamond and Pearl
62 Seaking Diamond and Pearl
17 Typhlosion Neo Genesis
100 Celebi * Crystal Guardians
7 Cradily Power Keepers
17 Exploud Great Encounters
5 Flygon Secret Wonders
26 Gyarados Mysterious Treasures
20 Kingler Great Encounters
27 Kricketune Mysterious Treasures
4 Latios OP Series 7
29 Mantine Mysterious Treasures
32 Ninetales Mysterious Treasures
103 Salamence ex Deoxys
22 Arcanine Secret Wonders
132 Honchkrow Lv.X Secret Wonders
106 Meganium ex Unseen Forces
5 Rampardos OP Series 6
110 Typhlosion ex Unseen Forces
1 Aggron Mysterious Treasures
89 Aggron ex Crystal Guardians
90 Altaria ex Emerald
84 Armaldo ex Legend Maker
2 Blastoise Secret Wonders
1 Blaziken Emerald
14 Butterfree Great Encounters
3 Charizard Legendary Collection
105 Dialga Lv.X Great Encounters
91 Dragonite ex (Delta Species) Dragon Frontiers
25 Dustox Diamond and Pearl
120 Empoleon Lv.X Diamond and Pearl
92 Exploud ex Crystal Guardians
8 Feraligatr Mysterious Treasures
108 Flareon ex Delta Species
92 Flygon ex (Delta Species) Dragon Frontiers
6 Gallade Secret Wonders
17 Ho-oh ex OP Series 3
94 Jirachi ex Crystal Guardians
9 Kabutops Fossil
105 Lugia ex Unseen Forces
7 Luxray Diamond and Pearl
31 Machamp Diamond and Pearl
123 Magmortar Lv.X Mysterious Treasures
34 Nidoking Secret Wonders
31 Nidoqueen Mysterious Treasures
11 Poliwrath Unseen Forces
33 Rampardos Mysterious Treasures
97 Rayquaza ex Dragon
12 Rhyperior Diamond and Pearl
18 Salamence Secret Wonders
98 Salamence ex (Delta Species) Dragon Frontiers
96 Sceptile ex (Delta Species) Crystal Guardians
34 Slaking Mysterious Treasures
98 Swampert ex Crystal Guardians
17 Torterra Diamond and Pearl
16 Typhlosion Mysterious Treasures
99 Tyranitar ex (Delta Species) Dragon Frontiers
30 Wailord Great Encounters
39 Walrein Mysterious Treasures
99 Walrein ex Power Keepers

Oh, and these are cards we don't have that we are eyeballing in getting. I don't know if I have the time or money to buy more different cards though but if there are a few must-haves here, please point them out. Thanks! (Oh and I'm not buying no Charizard EX 105 for $90 - that's nuts.)

101 Blissey ex Unseen Forces
100 Charizard * (Delta Species) Dragon Frontiers
105 Charizard ex Fire Red Leaf Green
96 Crobat ex Deoxys
17 Deoxys (Attack) Deoxys
99 Deoxys ex (Defense) Deoxys
86 Dustox ex Legend Maker
103 Feraligatr ex Unseen Forces
2 Gallade OP Series 7
131 Gardevoir Lv.X Secret Wonders
108 Gengar ex Fire Red Leaf Green
93 Groudon ex Crystal Guardians
102 Gyarados * (Delta Species) Holon Phantoms
93 Latias ex Dragon
94 Latios ex Dragon
8 Magnezone Diamond and Pearl
95 Medicham ex Emerald
95 Metagross ex Hidden Legends
103 Mewtwo * Holon Phantoms
96 Milotic ex Emerald
107 Politoed ex Unseen Forces
27 Primeape Great Encounters
97 Raichu ex Emerald
107 Rayquaza * Deoxys
100 Registeel ex Emerald
104 Sharpedo ex Deoxys
109 Steelix ex Unseen Forces
48 Sudowoodo Majestic Dawn
17 Tyranitar Mysterious Treasures
73 Venomoth Secret Wonders

 

[Amp]

You, sir, are the coolest dad ever. My dad sure didn't buy me super rare competition cards when i was little! You're kids are muchos grande lucky to have you, so make sure they appreciate what you're doing.

 

[Mewq]

well it is a little to much cards to look thru id say go in to either pokegym or pokebeach and look thro the deck forums. there you can see what cards are being used. also it is a good idea to focus on dp on since it is going to be that format last year

 

[jazee]

I've heard after this year's World Championships that many of the releases will be unplayable except Diamond & Pearl for the next year's format. Does anyone have a sense or educated guess on which releases (or whatever you want to call them) will be discontinued from tournament play and which ones aside from Diamond & Pearl may continue to be playable in the next modified format?

When are the championships and how long until they officially announce which releases are not longer playable after that?

Do you see a lot of people dump the ultra rares that are no longer playable right after the announcement or do most people still retain them for collecting purposes?

 

[Cipher 2008]

I've heard after this year's World Championships that many of the releases will be unplayable except Diamond & Pearl for the next year's format. Does anyone have a sense or educated guess on which releases (or whatever you want to call them) will be discontinued from tournament play and which ones aside from Diamond & Pearl may continue to be playable in the next modified format?

When are the championships and how long until they officially announce which releases are not longer playable after that?

Do you see a lot of people dump the ultra rares that are no longer playable right after the announcement or do most people still retain them for collecting purposes?

The new Modified Format has already been announced. Effective September 1st, four mainstream sets will be rotated out: Holon Phantoms; Crystal Guardians; Dragon Frontiers; and Power Keepers. Cards from these sets will thus be unusable in tournament play.

 

[Forci Stikane]

The new Modified Format has already been announced. Effective September 1st, four mainstream sets will be rotated out: Holon Phantoms; Crystal Guardians; Dragon Frontiers; and Power Keepers. Cards from these sets will thus be unusable in tournament play.

In other words, only DP-era sets (basically Diamond & Pearl and onwards) will be usable.

As for people getting rid of them...it depends on the card, really. In general, anything that has "Charizard" in its name will remain targeted by collectors, as may certain EX cards (LBS, anyone?) since they remain playable in non-competitive areas, but it is mostly on a card-by-card basis.

 

[jazee]

I see on some of the older sets that select cards are still playable. Of the ones the will be rotated out is there a list yet of which cards will still be playable or are all cards in the sets listed not playable? Where is it published? If some cards will still be playable and there is no list yet, then when and where will it be published?

 

[Cipher 2008]

Cards that have been reprinted in legal sets will be usable, but this (as of DP-on) is currently limited to only the following cards:

Double Full Heal
Energy Restore
Energy Switch
PlusPower
Poké Ball
Rare Candy
Super Scoop Up
Warp Point

Energy Search
Potion
Switch

Darkness Energy (Special)
Metal Energy (Special)
Multi Energy

This will of course change if reprinted cards appear in future sets (such as Claw Fossil and Root Fossil are due to in the next set).

 

[jazee]

Those are trainer cards. What about Pokemon cards?

 

[donavannj]

Those are trainer cards. What about Pokemon cards?

None of them were reprinted.

 

[jazee]

I had thought I saw a list where there were select Pokemon okay from previous sets but I guess that was a list that was more than a year or two old. I found the official 2007-2008 document and it confirms what looks to me like they simplified things by making the cutoff EX Holon Phantoms and there are no exceptions for cards from previous sets either playable, or current D&P cards banned. That's nice. Makes it easier on us newbies. So it appears then all the EX cards will not be playable in POP after in a little over 2 months? Gee, those are the cards my kid's go GAGA over, the 'EX' cards (and Lv.X) What great timing, they dump a bunch of money on EX cards and in two months they'll probably just be getting competetive in the local leagues at which time all their cherished EX cards will be worthless from a POP standpoint. Are the prices on Ebay really inflated when the cards first come out so it is best to wait for things to cool down a bit?

As I understand it, they essentially rotate the sets out primarily for money-making reasons so there is a reason to release new sets for people to buy without the number of cards growing too large?

So aside from current D & P and Promo cards, when will the next generation of cards be released that have some new powerful Pokemon, suitable replacements for the EX cards being rotated out? Anyone know the name? Do people go wild buying the decks when they first come out so it's like the WII Fit, everyone is sold out for several weeks? Are there a lot of resellers out there that buy it all up to snag the good cars and resell them at a profit making it very hard to get new good cards? Of course considering the packs are random, it may be better even on new sets to just wait to buy what you want off E-bay rather than going through tons of Booster Packs?

I am guessing I should read/watch this thread for info on future cards.

thread 74545 (News and Gossip Forum)

Still wondering what happens when they come out. Is there plenty for everyone or does it go Wild in stored and Ebay like WII games.

 

[Cipher 2008]

As I understand it, they essentially rotate the sets out primarily for money-making reasons so there is a reason to release new sets for people to buy without the number of cards growing too large?

So aside from current D & P and Promo cards, when will the next generation of cards be released that have some new powerful Pokemon, suitable replacements for the EX cards being rotated out? Anyone know the name? Do people go wild buying the decks when they first come out so it's like the WII Fit, everyone is sold out for several weeks? Are there a lot of resellers out there that buy it all up to snag the good cars and resell them at a profit making it very hard to get new good cards? Of course considering the packs are random, it may be better even on new sets to just wait to buy what you want off E-bay rather than going through tons of Booster Packs?

First paragraph: No. Pokémon Organized Play rotates cards out annually to ensure the playing field is fair. Newer players will not have old cards, so for those cards to be legal would be unfair on them.

Second paragraph: The TCG follows in-line with the games, so what happens after the DP series is literally years away. God knows what'll happen. And no, the TCG is not as popular as other merchandise like Wii and Wii Fit, not by a long shot.