Fidel Castro dead at 90

[Her]

link

"The commander in chief of the Cuban revolution died at 22:29 hours this evening (03:29 GMT Saturday)," President Raul Castro said. Fidel Castro ruled Cuba as a one-party state for almost 50 years before Raul took over in 2008. His supporters said he had given Cuba back to the people. But he was also accused of suppressing opposition.

Ashen and grave, President Castro told the nation in an unexpected late night broadcast on state television that Fidel Castro had died and would be cremated later on Saturday.There would now be several days of national mourning on the island. Raul Castro ended the announcement by shouting the revolutionary slogan: "Towards victory, always!"

Barring the occasional newspaper column, Fidel Castro had essentially been retired from political life for some time, the BBC's Will Grant in Havana reports.
In April, Fidel Castro gave a rare speech on the final day of the country's Communist Party congress. He acknowledged his advanced age but said Cuban communist concepts were still valid and the Cuban people "will be victorious". "I'll soon be 90," the former president said, adding that this was "something I'd never imagined". "Soon I'll be like all the others, "to all our turn must come," Fidel Castro said.

Castro - who had survived many assassination plots - was the longest serving non-royal leader of the 20th Century. Castro temporarily handed over power to his brother in 2006 as he was recovering from an acute intestinal ailment. Raul Castro officially became president two years later.

 

[Hikamaru]

And we get another one added to 2016's already infamous death tally. Let's admit that this year will be remembered for nothing other than deaths, deaths and uh more deaths.

Rest in peace Fidel Castro.

 

[gimmepie]

And we get another one added to 2016's already infamous death tally. Let's admit that this year will be remembered for nothing other than deaths, deaths and uh more deaths.

Rest in peace Fidel Castro.

I mean, Fidel Castro is a slightly more interesting case because a lot of people are not going to be morning his death and for good reason really I guess. He was largely responsible for the Cuban missile crisis and was essentially a communist dictator - and we all know how much people love those. He was also a strange figure though because he legitimately did things to lower class division and expand education and healthcare too - and he didn't really need to because he grew up quite wealthy. He was simultaneously one of the most loved and most hated leaders on Earth depending simply on whether you were a supporter or not.

 

[Somewhere_]

i usually dont cheer for people's deaths, but hell yes. He was a terrible human being and put Cuba's economy down the shithole.

sorry for the cussing, I'm kinda in a bad mood rn i try not to cuss, but ya

 

[gimmepie]

i usually dont cheer for people's deaths, but hell yes. He was a terrible human being and put Cuba's economy down the shithole.

sorry for the cussing, I'm kinda in a bad mood rn i try not to cuss, but ya

True enough I suppose, but you can't deny that he also greatly improved quality of life for the working class and promoted education. I think his was arguably one of the few cases where communism wasn't just used to satisfy his own greed.

I don't think Castro is someone you can look at in terms of just the black and white because everything he did was either completely terrible or the exact opposite with not much middle ground.

 

[Ivysaur]

Dictatorships are bad. And yet you cannot say that he ran a purely extractive system in which poor people were forced to work for the profit of an elite, as in the USSR or in most African dictatorships. He was a product of his time, spending his youth fighting a right-wing US-sponsored dictatorship that kept people poor and oppressed. Despite still being poor and oppressed, his people are now better than they were before he rose to power. And they are better educated too, which hopefully means there will be a transition to a modern democracy once Raúl steps down. I just hope Trump doesn't try to go back to the "iron fist" treatment of the country, because the embargo is arguably the reason why the system has endured for so long: nothing better than a good enemy to rally around your people.

French president Hollande praised Fidel's lifetime stance against US involvement in their affairs. He rose because of it and he clung to power because of it. I hope Trump doesn't fuck this chance. Cuba deserves to finally end the Cold War.

 

[Hands]

i usually dont cheer for people's deaths, but hell yes. He was a terrible human being and put Cuba's economy down the ****hole.

sorry for the cussing, I'm kinda in a bad mood rn i try not to cuss, but ya

Yeah i can't imagine the US trade embargo had anything to do with it.

 

[Ivysaur]

Trump's statement praising the Cuban exiles who endorsed him and calling him "a brutal dictator whose only legacy are firing squads, theft, uninimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental rights" shows that my hopes are going down the drain. The embargo will endure, the thaw in relations will become frozen again and Cuba will remain a Communist dictatorship for another 4 years. With some bad luck, Trump will cause the transition in power after Raúl steps down in 2018 to be used as a way to entrench the system even further as a way to fight the "terrible orange-coloured imperialist" up there. This is terrible.

Funny how Trump he called the (mostly capitalist) Egyptian dictator Al-Sisi "a fantastic guy" for using the same firing squads to deny human rights to and brutally execute 800 people on a single day- but they were "islamic terrorists" so it's all good.

 

[Somewhere_]

True enough I suppose, but you can't deny that he also greatly improved quality of life for the working class and promoted education. I think his was arguably one of the few cases where communism wasn't just used to satisfy his own greed.

I don't think Castro is someone you can look at in terms of just the black and white because everything he did was either completely terrible or the exact opposite with not much middle ground.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB113590852154334404
https://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kill-1111789

I dont really want to get into an economic argument, but here are Fidel Castro's death count.

About 100,000 died because of Fidel Castro. If you want to count potential deaths, we can speculate how people people would have died in the Cuban Missile Crisis if it went wrong. Not to mention, he backed the USSR, which was responsible for 52-62 million deaths.

(just for my own reading, can you link me to sources that say the quality of life improved under Castro's regime?)

 

[gimmepie]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB113590852154334404
https://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kill-1111789

I dont really want to get into an economic argument, but here are Fidel Castro's death count.

About 100,000 died because of Fidel Castro. If you want to count potential deaths, we can speculate how people people would have died in the Cuban Missile Crisis if it went wrong. Not to mention, he backed the USSR, which was responsible for 52-62 million deaths.

(just for my own reading, can you link me to sources that say the quality of life improved under Castro's regime?)

Like I said earlier, you can't really lump Castro into purely good or purely bad because whilst many things did go extremely poorly several aspects of Cuban society under his rule did improve. Here's are two excerpts from this article that looks at some of the pros and cons of his rule (it does seem to have a slight pro US bias at points for some reason as well so keep that in mind).

The émigré community in the US would answer in a single word, none. They point to the economic problems of the island, its denial of political diversity, and its dreadful human rights record. But the Castro model of socialism can point to achievements as well. Despite its scant resources, Cuba has fashioned education and health care systems that would be the envy of far richer countries. Illiteracy has been eradicated, while life expectancy at birth in Cuba is about the same as in the US, despite healthcare spending per capita one 20th the size of that of its giant neighbour. The key has been a localised system of medicine, that puts a heavy emphasis on preventive treatment. More broadly, Castro has given Cuba a real sense of national identity. In this he has been unwittingly helped by the US, whose 45 years of persecution of Cuba have served to strengthen, not weaken, the regime.

Has the Castro era produced any achievements?

Yes...

* Despite decades of economic embargo, life expectancy is virtually identical to that in the United States

* Cuba has more doctors per head of population than many far richer countries can boast

* It is ranked 52 out of 177 countries on the UN's human development index, which measures health, education and living standards

No...

* The economy is stagnant and income per head is lower than in much of Latin America

* External economic aid and support has dried up since the collapse of the Soviet Union

* Human rights violations are appalling and political opposition is ruthlessly silenced

So whilst there's definitely a lot of negatives, you can't really ignore that he did some good things too. He's won internationally recognized accolades for the positive work he's done for education and healthcare also if you're willing to accept wikipedia as a source (too lazy to check more into it atm).

I'd also point out that at least one point on that "no" list is largely the fault of the United States and that you shouldn't fault Cuba for Russia's actions - not to mention that the US likely had a similar body count in the first place if you want a comparison since it was engaged in plenty of proxy wars of its own.

 

[Somewhere_]

Like I said earlier, you can't really lump Castro into purely good or purely bad because whilst many things did go extremely poorly several aspects of Cuban society under his rule did improve. Here's are two excerpts from this article that looks at some of the pros and cons of his rule (it does seem to have a slight pro US bias at points for some reason as well so keep that in mind).






So whilst there's definitely a lot of negatives, you can't really ignore that he did some good things too. He's won internationally recognized accolades for the positive work he's done for education and healthcare also if you're willing to accept wikipedia as a source (too lazy to check more into it atm).

I'd also point out that at least one point on that "no" list is largely the fault of the United States and that you shouldn't fault Cuba for Russia's actions - not to mention that the US likely had a similar body count in the first place if you want a comparison since it was engaged in plenty of proxy wars of its own.

I didnt know about the education and healthcare. Interesting. Im going to look into that more.

I also want to compare how Fidel improved Cuba compared to the former regime considering both governments had total control over the economy.

You know I'm not a fan of the US government. xD

 

[Ivysaur]

I didnt know about the education and healthcare. Interesting. Im going to look into that more.

I also want to compare how Fidel improved Cuba compared to the former regime considering both governments had total control over the economy.

You know I'm not a fan of the US government. xD

According to an analysis from Kennedy (!), under Batista's dictatorship, "a Cuban family"'s weekly income was $6 ($50 adjusted for inflation). Current weekly GDP per capita is $116. So, while it is lower than in other places of Latin America, it is sill far larger than it was under Batista. All of that despite the embargo choking their economy and shielding them from most technological progress.

Incidentally, Kennedy also points out how the "anti-imperialist" part of the revolution started because, despite their suffering and poverty, the rich US neighbours only sent them help in form of... weapons so Batista could keep up the repression! Obviously it's no wonder that Cubans loathe the US in general, and that even a new, democratic Government would have frosty relations with their neighbour at best.

 

[Caaethil]

Absolutely terrible man. No sympathy whatsoever. Communist dictator with a list of disgraceful acts as long as my arm.

Hitler did good things too which improved life in Germany for a lot of people, but that doesn't excuse killing the Jews. Obviously an extreme example but I see this the same way.

 

[Somewhere_]

Thoughts on Justin Trudeau's comments on Fidel Castro?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/world/americas/justin-trudeau-fidel-castro.html?_r=0

Thoughts on Donald Trump's comments on Fidel Castro?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...onald-trumps-reaction-to-fidel-castros-death/

Both statements really conflict with each other and demonstrate two totally different viewpoints. Trudeau has been criticized, but is this the way Trump should really be acting (celebrating the death of a former wold leader)?

 

[Ivysaur]

Gerald Ford's statement on Mao Zedong: https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/document/0122/1253020.pdf

Now guess which one of the two you linked to this one resembles more closely.

Hint: is the one who actually has a clue about how these things work out of the two.

 

[Kanzler]

I can't believe he managed to make Cuba go communist. Right in America's backyard, too.

 

[Sir Codin]

I can't believe he managed to make Cuba go communist. Right in America's backyard, too.

Which resulted in an embargo that the country was too fucking stubborn to lift for a half century.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I'm not sure how to feel about this. On one hand, Castro provided better education and healthcare than the U.S., showing that it is possible to have a Communist country without corruption, but on the other hand, he's still done some terrible things in Cuba, but the importance education and healthcare are prioritized over everything else, because that's two of the main issues going on in the United States and is in need attention.

 

[Margaery Tyrell]

I don't think anybody is in denial of Castro's repressive and violent actions during his regime but as some people have noted, under his regime, Cuba gained an excellent health care and educational system (100% literacy rate geez).

I think its also important to keep in mind that despite the poverty Cuba experienced, Cuba faced what was essentially economic warfare (and countless militant attacks besides) from the US that stifled their economy

I also had no idea until recently that sex-transitioning was free in Cuba and discrimination based on sexual orientation (at least in employment) is nationally prohibited*

So...lots of pros and cons lmao

*i'm not sure if either of these things can be attributed to Castro's efforts however, as he was known for his own homophobia

 

[Corrin]

Thoughts on Justin Trudeau's comments on Fidel Castro?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/world/americas/justin-trudeau-fidel-castro.html?_r=0

Thoughts on Donald Trump's comments on Fidel Castro?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...onald-trumps-reaction-to-fidel-castros-death/

Both statements really conflict with each other and demonstrate two totally different viewpoints. Trudeau has been criticized, but is this the way Trump should really be acting (celebrating the death of a former wold leader)?

I dunno what Trudeau was thinking, most people view Castro in a negative light so this may hurt his popularity.