Looking for some help with a Sunny Day team I'm making for lols.

[ElfinHilon10]

Hey guys. Looking to make a Sunny Day team just to see how well I can actually do with it. I have some pokemon planned out totally, and others not so much. Some help would be awesome!


Ninetails @ Heat rock
Ability: Drought
Nature: N/A (Not sure which I should do)
Moveset:
Flamethrower
Will-O-Wisp
Energy Ball/Solar Beam
Swagger/Confuse Ray/Extrasensory/Roar

EVs: No idea. Need help here what I should do. I'm thinking +speed + def. With Sunny day out, water will do half damage anyway. Need to be able to get out will o wisp quickly, and then if a ground/rock/water comes out, use Solar beam in one turn and hopefully OHKO.

Liligant @ N/A (not sure which item I should do)
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Timid
Move set:
Sleep powder
Dream Eater
Solar Beam
Leech Seed/Synthesis/Quiver Dance

EVs:
+252 Speed
+252 Special Attack
+6 HP

Not sure on last move, which one would be the best. With sun out, Lilligant would even tie Crobat with speed, with chlorophyll. Dream eater is for type coverage, as well as giving some HP back with doing damage once asleep. Not sure what held item I should give her.

Noivern @ N/A (Don't know)
Ability: Infiltrator
Nature: Timid
Moveset:
Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
Boomburst
Airslash/Hurricane
Roost/Moonlight
EVs:
+252 Speed
+252 Special Attack
+6 HP

I'm not sure if I should go with the more powerful moves with reduced accuracy, or the weaker moves with higher accuracy. One thing I figured is that I could have him hold a scope lens or whatever item that is makes your attacks more accurate, but is it worth it? On the top of Moonlight/Roost, I'm leaning towards Roost, as losing his flying type is more beneficial than him healing 2/3 HP vs just 1/2.

Florges @ N/A (Don't know)
Ability: Flower veil (I don't think Symbiosis works in single battles.)
Nature: N/A (Not sure)
Moveset:
Moonblast
Grassy Terrain
Solarbeam/Sunny Day/Wish/Aromatherapy
Aromatherapy/Wish

EVs: No idea how I should EV this guy. Was thinking +252 HP + 252 def, to help make him a little more wall-ish, but don't know.

No idea on nature or ability either, if Symbiosis does work, how would I use it? I kinda really would like wish, but it might not really be worth it since so many of the other pokemon can heal. So far the only one who can't is Ninetails, and it may be worth it to wish, and then swap to him to not only heal, but also refresh sun.

Heliolisk @ Leftovers(?(No idea really))
Ability: Solar power
Nature Timid
Moveset
Thunderbolt
Surf
Dark Pulse
Electrify
EVs:
+252 Speed
+252 Special Attack
+6 HP

Now, you be asking me, why in the world are you giving him surf with sunny day. Well, two reasons, one, it's amazing type coverage against a rock/ground, and can enable him to stay out longer. If I do choose to do Wish on Florges, his ability effectively becomes only a positive. Now what about the water damage reduction with Surf and sunny day, as Sunny Day reduces all water type damage by 50%. That's where his ability comes into play. With his ability, it's multiple back up by 50%, so I am exactly where I started. Literally lost nothing and I gain very crucial type coverage. Electrify is the only iffy one. There are some situations I can see it being really good, and others where it's worthless. But, I don't know what else to put there. Dark pulse is there for obvious type coverage against Ghost/Psychic. If I were to replace Electrify, I do not know what I'd put in it's place.

As for the last pokemon, this is where I am stuck. I REALLY need something that's bulky with either ground or fighting coverage with physical. I was thinking of using Blaizaken, with that speed boost ability and Adamant nature, but I'm not sure. The other alternative I was thinking was Carbink, as he can be a really good wall with toxic and wish from Florges. Honestly am not sure what I should put there.

If you have any suggestions with movesets for what I've listed, feel free to shout out. If there are any pokemon you think would make a better substitute, let me know. This team is special heavy, and I don't like that all that much, so I need a physical sweeper or something that's bulky with physical attacks. One thing I was debating is switching Lilligant with Leafon, but I don't have much coverage, nor utility with him, just straight up grass moves.

Thoughts?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Confuse Ray and Swagger aren't worth it unless they're used by Prankster users like Liepard. Ninetales should also be using a defensive spread now, because it needs all the survivability it can get now that weather from ability or move lasts for 5-8 turns:
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Flamethrower
-Roar/Will-o-Wisp
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/228 SDef/32 Spe
Item: Heat Rock
Ability: Drought

or
-Flamethrower
-Will-o-Wisp
-Protect
-Roar
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/228 SDef/32 Spe
Item: Heat Rock
Ability: Drought

or
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Hidden Power (Ice)/Nasty Plot
-Sunny Day
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Heat Rock
Ability: Drought

Dream Eater isn't worth using ever. It depends on the opponent being asleep to be effective, and it's rendered useless simply by withdrawing the sleeping opponent from battle (which is highly likely). Quiver Dance is a given for Lilligant and you should take advantage of that. Despite Hidden Power's nerf, it's very important for Lilligant because it needs the extra coverage, due to the fact that its coverage move pool is utterly barren.:
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain
-Hidden Power (Fire/Rock/Ice)
-Sleep Powder
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll

or
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power (Fire/Rock)
-Sleep Powder
-Healing Wish
Nature: Modest
EVs: 60 Def/252 SAtk/196 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll

Roost is important for Noivern because it lets it resist Electric, while reducing its Ice weakness the turn the move is used. Also, Noivern is best played as an offensive scout:
-Draco Meteor
-Hurricane/Air Slash
-Focus Blast/Flamethrower
-U-turn/Switcheroo
Nature: Naive/Timid
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator

or
-Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
-Hurricane/Air Slash/Boomburst
-Flamethrower/Focus Blast
-Roost/U-turn
Nature: Timid/Naive
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator/Frisk

Grassy Terrain is not worth using competitively. It benefits the opponent as well and you wouldn't want to give grounded opponents passive recovery. Symbiosis is completely useless in singles, as it relies on the user's partner in doubles/triples to consume/lose their item. While Flower Veil is also useless in singles, it should be Florges' ability of choice. Also, Florges is an all-female species:
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast
-Aromatherapy/Toxic
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil

or
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Psychic
-Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil

Electrify is very gimmicky, just by reading the move's description. Heliolisk is super-defensively weak to use support moves and is better off all-out attacking:
-Thunderbolt
-U-turn/Volt Switch
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power (Ice)/Grass Knot
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Solar Power

Sun teams tend to be very vulnerable to entry hazards, so a Rapid Spinner or Magic Bouncer like Excadrill or Espeon can help with the team:

Excadrill:
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Rapid Spin
-Shadow Claw/Swords Dance
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Assault Vest/Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker

Espeon:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Hidden Power (Fire)/Baton Pass
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce

This team could use another Fire attacker to take advantage of the sun Ninetales brings, so Volcarona and Mega Houndoom can help. Backup Sun inducers help as well:

Volcarona:
-Quiver Dance
-Fire Blast/Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Hidden Power (Ground/Ice/Rock)
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body

Mega Houndoom:
-Fire Blast
-Dark Pulse
-Hidden Power (Ice)/Solar Beam
-Nasty Plot/Will-o-Wisp/Sunny Day/Destiny Bond
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire (becomes Solar Power when Mega Evolved)

Venusaur:
-Sunny Day/Growth
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb/Sleep Powder
-Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 40 HP/252 SAtk/216 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll

Physical attackers in addition to Excadrill to include in the team are Charizard X, mixed Charizard Y, Sawsbuck and Talonflame:

Charizard X:
-Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Roost
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze

or
-Flare Blitz
-Dragon Claw
-Will-o-Wisp
-Roost
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 248 HP/84 SDef/176 Spe
Item: Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze

Mixed Mega Charizard Y:
-Flare Blitz
-Fire Blast/Overheat
-Focus Blast/Brick Break
-Hidden Power (Ice)/Earthquake
Nature: Naughty/Naive/Lonely/Hasty
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Charizardite Y

Sawsbuck:
-Return/Double-Edge
-Horn Leech
-Jump Kick
-Swords Dance/Megahorn
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 48 HP/244 Atk/216 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll

Talonflame:
-Swords Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Brave Bird
-Roost/Tailwind/Will-o-Wisp
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Sharp Beak/Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings

or
-Flare Blitz
-Brave Bird
-U-turn
-Will-o-Wisp/Tailwind
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spe
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings

I know I suggested a lot of things here, but try to experiment with them and see what works for you.

 

[Ársa]

Ninetails @ Heat rock
Ability: Drought
Nature: N/A (Not sure which I should do)
Moveset:
Flamethrower
Will-O-Wisp
Energy Ball/Solar Beam
Swagger/Confuse Ray/Extrasensory/Roar

Unfortunately, if you're facing any other weather team, you will be on the back foot from the beginning because Ninetales outspeeds every other weather starter out there. For this reason, I would suggest at least making Zard-Y your lead. It can set Drought on 2nd turn. I wouldn't forgo Ninetails completely - if you see that your opponent isn't running a weather team in the preview screen, Ninetails is probably the more preferable lead. Use one of the spreads PlatinumDude provided you - Ninetales wants the extra bulk.

Liligant @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Modest
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Move set:
Sleep powder
Hidden Power Fire
Solar Beam
Quiver Dance

Firstly, get rid of Dream Eater for Hidden Power Fire. Now this requires an IV spread of 31 / 30 / 31 / 30 / 31 / 30. Even with a 30 Speed IV, under Sun a Modest Lilligant only needs 16 Speed EV's to outspeed a max speed Mega Aerodactyl (which is the fastest thing you will find yourself facing). The rest can be pumped into HP and Special Defense for extra bulk. Quiver Dance should go in the last slot. As for the item, you can go with either Leftovers or Life Orb.

Rotom-H @ Choice Specs
Calm
252 HP / 52 SpA / 220 SpD
Levitate

Overheat
Volt Switch
Trick
Will-o-Wisp

Noivern isn't benefitting from Sun in any way, and it doesn't directly counter any of the common threats to sun teams (see: weather setters / bulky water / ground / fire types. As such, I would consider something like Rotom-H. It resists both of Abomasnow's STAB moves, sun weakens its water weakness, it has access to a sun boosted STAB in Overheat + STAB electric moves for water teams, and WoW to cripple common sand sweepers like T-Tar and Garchomp. Trick helps you cripple and threats to your team.

Florges @ Leftovers / Pixie Plate
Ability: Flower veil
Nature: Bold / Modest (Not sure)
EVs: 252 HP /
Moveset:
Moonblast
Solarbeam
Protect
Wish

Wish passing is more efficient than Grassy Terrain. With Protect, Florges can better make use of its own Wish to heal. As far as the items / nature / EV's go, it depends on what you want to be able to do. To maximize your Wish passing, you want 252 HP EV's. After this you can choose. If you want Florges to be as bulky as possible, then Bold +252 Def EV's and Leftovers is the best idea. However, with Pixie Plate + Modest + 28 SpA EV's, you will OHKO 4HP Garchomp 100% of the time.

28+ SpA Pixie Plate Florges Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 186-218 (101 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Using Bold + Leftovers + 4SpA EV's:

4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 134-162 (72.8 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Pixie Plate Moonblast hits surprisingly hard on non-resisted pokemon as well, so it is definitely something to consider.

Heliolisk @ Choice Scarf / Petaya Berry / Salac Berry
Ability: Solar power
Nature Timid / Modest
Moveset
Volt Switch
Grass Knot
Dark Pulse / Substitute
Hidden Power Fire/Ice
EVs:
+252 Speed
+252 Special Attack
+6 HP

Electrify shouldn't be here. Outside of niche uses in doubles, it's really a useless move. Add that to the fact you're losing 1/8th of your health at the end of each turn due to Solar Power, and it adds no worth. As for 'coverage', Heliolisk gets access to Grass Knot - which isn't affected by sun and will hit most of what you'll be using it for (Hippowdon / Tyranitar / Aggron etc.) for more damage than Surf. Volt Switch > Thunderbolt, and take your pick between Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Ice for the final slot > Electrify. For the items, if you go with a full-attacking moveset, Choice Scarf + Modest will allow Heliolisk to outspeed and KO quite a lot of threats with the Solar Power boost. Now, you can actually take advantage of Solar Power, by using Sub + Berry to get yourself into boosting range. You will have 2 turns once the berry activates before Heliolisk is knocked out from Solar Power. Ultimately it's your call.

And as I mentioned before, Charizard-Y can be a very useful tool under sun.

Charizard @ Charizardite-Y
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Blaze

Fire Blast / Heat Wave / Overheat
Focus Blast
Air Slash
Solarbeam

First slot is preference for power / accuracy / staying power. The rest are coverage moves.

Comments in bold. I have assumed that this is a singles team and not for doubles.

Now, what I have noticed with this team is that when including Charizard-Y, you really need a rapid spin / defog user. PlatinumDude mentioned Excadrill as your spinner, which is certainly viable. All current defog users are weak to SR - bar one. An Assault Vest Scizor could be viable in place of the Rotom-H - or probably more likely, Ninetales -then add Sunny Day > Solarbeam/Protect on Florges. Scizor threatens Hail teams with STAB Bullet Punch, and provides another form of bulky offense. Defog also cannot be blocked by ghosts like Rapid Spin is.

Hopefully I've helped somewhat.

 

[ElfinHilon10]

Ok here's the updated team. Also as a note, that I mentioned earlier, this is simply for random battles. From my experience in random battles, entry hazards are actually pretty damn rare, and most people just go for Sweepers/Ubers, so having a stealth rock remover is pretty much pointless.

Ninetails:
-Flamethrower
-Will-o-Wisp
-Protect
-Roar
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/228 SDef/32 Spe
Item: Heat Rock
Ability: Drought

Lilligant:
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain/Solarbeam
-Hidden Power (Fire/Rock/Ice)
-Sleep Powder
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll

Florges:
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast
-Aromatherapy/Toxic (Still unsure if I want to use Toxic over Aromatherapy. It provides extremely good utility for my team, where as with Toxic, I can sit and toxic the team over and over and protect and wish, making myself near invincible. That being said, I have Will-O-Wisp as well on Ninetails, and Toxic is countered by Steel, which will be SUPER common against Florges, as well as just simply switching in and out.)
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil

Heliolisk:
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Dark Pulse
-Sunny Day. (IF Ninetails get's KO'ed, his ability goes to waste. I need another pokemon with Sunny Day just in case.)
Item: Leftovers/Lifeorb (Leftovers preferred, as it makes the downside effect, HP loss, effectively worthless)
Ability: Solar power
Nature Timid
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 6 HP

Espeon:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic/
-Hidden Power (Fighting/Bug/Water)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce

OR

Noivern:
-Draco Meteor
-Boom Blast
-Roost
-Focus Blast/ Dark Pulse
Nature: Timid
Item: White herb/Left overs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Speed/252Spa/6HP

Blaziken:
-Flare Blitz
-High Jump Kick
-Poison Jab (for fairy, but honestly might be pointless with his insane damage on Flare Blitz anyway)/ Solarbeam (deal with ground/rock/water)
-Hone Claws
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Speed Boost
Item: Blazekinite


Let me know what you guys think. Added my little notes next to the side.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Ok here's the updated team. Also as a note, that I mentioned earlier, this is simply for random battles. From my experience in random battles, entry hazards are actually pretty damn rare, and most people just go for Sweepers/Ubers, so having a stealth rock remover is pretty much pointless.

Ninetails:
-Flamethrower
-Will-o-Wisp
-Protect
-Roar
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/228 SDef/32 Spe
Item: Heat Rock
Ability: Drought

Lilligant:
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain/Solarbeam
-Hidden Power (Fire/Rock/Ice)
-Sleep Powder
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll

Florges:
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast
-Aromatherapy/Toxic (Still unsure if I want to use Toxic over Aromatherapy. It provides extremely good utility for my team, where as with Toxic, I can sit and toxic the team over and over and protect and wish, making myself near invincible. That being said, I have Will-O-Wisp as well on Ninetails, and Toxic is countered by Steel, which will be SUPER common against Florges, as well as just simply switching in and out.)
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil

Heliolisk:
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Dark Pulse
-Sunny Day. (IF Ninetails get's KO'ed, his ability goes to waste. I need another pokemon with Sunny Day just in case.)
Item: Leftovers/Lifeorb (Leftovers preferred, as it makes the downside effect, HP loss, effectively worthless)
Ability: Solar power
Nature Timid
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 6 HP

Espeon:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic/
-Hidden Power (Fighting/Bug/Water)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce

OR

Noivern:
-Draco Meteor
-Boom Blast
-Roost
-Focus Blast/ Dark Pulse
Nature: Timid
Item: White herb/Left overs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Speed/252Spa/6HP

Blaziken:
-Flare Blitz
-High Jump Kick
-Poison Jab (for fairy, but honestly might be pointless with his insane damage on Flare Blitz anyway)/ Solarbeam (deal with ground/rock/water)
-Hone Claws
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Speed Boost
Item: Blazekinite


Let me know what you guys think. Added my little notes next to the side.

I wouldn't use Solar Beam on Lilligant because I want to bring up this situation: What if a new weather comes in just as Lilligant is about to use the move? Lilligant will be forced into Solar Beam's charge-up turn if this happens. Giga Drain is still the reliable attack because of the recovery it provides.

Heliolisk CANNOT learn Sunny Day. As I mentioned before, use Venusaur as your backup sun inducer.

Dark Pulse is only good as a STAB move, IMO. This applies to Heliolisk (assuming you plan to keep it) and Noivern. See their sets in my last post, as they have better coverage. Also, it's Boomburst

Sun-boosted Flare Blitzes from Blaziken hit harder than super effective Poison Jabs. While Hone Claws makes High Jump Kick more accurate, stick to Swords Dance because it gives a bigger boost to Attack:
-Flare Blitz
-High Jump Kick
-Protect
-Swords Dance/Baton Pass
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Blazikenite/Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost

 

[ElfinHilon10]

I wouldn't use Solar Beam on Lilligant because I want to bring up this situation: What if a new weather comes in just as Lilligant is about to use the move? Lilligant will be forced into Solar Beam's charge-up turn if this happens. Giga Drain is still the reliable attack because of the recovery it provides.

Heliolisk CANNOT learn Sunny Day. As I mentioned before, use Venusaur as your backup sun inducer.

Dark Pulse is only good as a STAB move, IMO. This applies to Heliolisk (assuming you plan to keep it) and Noivern. See their sets in my last post, as they have better coverage. Also, it's Boomburst

Sun-boosted Flare Blitzes from Blaziken hit harder than super effective Poison Jabs. While Hone Claws makes High Jump Kick more accurate, stick to Swords Dance because it gives a bigger boost to Attack:
-Flare Blitz
-High Jump Kick
-Protect
-Swords Dance/Baton Pass
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Blazikenite/Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost

Ah k. I really need Dark Coverage, and added with the chance to flinch, it seems too good to pass up. Focus blast is too inaccurate for me. I could use it on Noivern, and I'll replace Dark Pulse with that since he has Roost as a back up, but I can't afford to put it on Heliolisk. Since sunny day can't be put on Heliolisk, is it worth it to switch to Rotom-H? I need electric coverage for obvious reasons, and I don't want another grass type, something that's weak to both flying and ice AND fire, just like Lilligant.

EDIT: What about Klefki? He can act as Espeon, and he has priority with Prankster, can learn both Reflect and Light Screen, and he can learn sunny day. For the last move I can give him Draining Kiss. SO, something like this

Klefki:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Sunny Day
-Draining kiss
Ability: Prankster
Item: Light Clay
EVs: 252HP/252Def/4Special D
Nature: Calm/Bold

What do you think of that? Draining kiss will give him some sort of attack move, and is only resisted by a few things, fire/poison/steel, and he's only weak to ground and fire. I think he would be perfect instead of Heliolisk.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Ah k. I really need Dark Coverage, and added with the chance to flinch, it seems too good to pass up. Focus blast is too inaccurate for me. I could use it on Noivern, and I'll replace Dark Pulse with that since he has Roost as a back up, but I can't afford to put it on Heliolisk. Since sunny day can't be put on Heliolisk, is it worth it to switch to Rotom-H? I need electric coverage for obvious reasons, and I don't want another grass type, something that's weak to both flying and ice AND fire, just like Lilligant.

Heat Rotom works, sure:
-Overheat
-Volt Switch
-Thunder Wave/Will-o-Wisp
-Thunderbolt/Hidden Power (Ice)/Rest
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry

or
-Overheat
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power (Ice)/Trick
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf

 

[ElfinHilon10]

Heat Rotom works, sure:
-Overheat
-Volt Switch
-Thunder Wave/Will-o-Wisp
-Thunderbolt/Hidden Power (Ice)/Rest
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry

or
-Overheat
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power (Ice)/Trick
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf

What do you think about that or my Klefki build? I'm really unsure which one I should do haha. They are both good.

Also, which HP should I use on Lilligant? The other guy said fire, it's more or less useless since I already have so many fire types. I'm leaning towards rock, to help deal with other fire types I face, and quite a few of em have either Fire/Flying or Fire/Bug. Only one I am worried about would be Talonflame with Gale wings.

 

[PlatinumDude]

What do you think about that or my Klefki build? I'm really unsure which one I should do haha. They are both good.

Also, which HP should I use on Lilligant? The other guy said fire, it's more or less useless since I already have so many fire types. I'm leaning towards rock, to help deal with other fire types I face, and quite a few of em have either Fire/Flying or Fire/Bug. Only one I am worried about would be Talonflame with Gale wings.

Draining Kiss isn't worth using because it's weak, even with STAB. Use Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam or Foul Play instead.

Use Rock if Talonflame is a concern (of course, you still have to hit it on the switch).

 

[ElfinHilon10]

Draining Kiss isn't worth using because it's weak, even with STAB. Use Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam or Foul Play instead.

Use Rock if Talonflame is a concern (of course, you still have to hit it on the switch).

Talonflame, Charizard, Blaziken, and Volcarona all a serious threat to me.

That being said, so are some of the dragon/flying types. Dragonite, Noivern, Goodra (big time), Dragalge, and Garchomp. Now I know I have my Florges for them, but even still.

HP Rock won't work on Blaziken though. Also, Gliscor. I really got nothing on that guy. He's gonna be able to destroy me if I'm not careful, so I need something for him, which HP Ice would work well, but I want to make sure I can still have the 30 speed IV and keep these HPs.

What would you use in my case? Klefki or one of the Rotom-Hs? Really, if I don't have sunny day, my team is kinda gonna suck, so I'm leaning Klefki. One other thing I want to mention. There's only 5 pokemon I need to be concerned of if another person is using a weather team. Abomasnow for hail. That's an extremely easy counter to predict. Politoad for rain. A little more difficult to predict, but still doable. In this case, Giga drain certainly is better, and I will use that instead. Hippowdon and T-Tar for sandstorm. Again, both of those easy counters. Blaziken for T-Tar and Lill for Hippo. With Klefki on my team, all I need to do is send him out and boom first turn I get Sunny Day off. The harder team to face is going to be the sandstorm teams, so for that reason, I think I am going to go with HP Ice for Lilligant. Will give be a VERY hard counter to sand teams.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Talonflame, Charizard, Blaziken, and Volcarona all a serious threat to me.

That being said, so are some of the dragon/flying types. Dragonite, Noivern, Goodra (big time), Dragalge, and Garchomp. Now I know I have my Florges for them, but even still.

HP Rock won't work on Blaziken though.

Having your own Goodra helps against specially-oriented Fire Pokemon. Also having your own Dragonite for the Fire Pokemon you mentioned works too:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Thunderbolt/Sludge Bomb
-Toxic/Dragon Tail
Nature: Modest/Quiet
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Choice Specs/Assault Vest
Ability: Gooey/Sap Sipper

or
-Dragon Pulse
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Thunderbolt
-Toxic/Dragon Tail
Nature: Calm/Sassy
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Gooey/Sap Sipper

Dragonite:
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Fire Punch/Thunder Punch
-Earthquake/Roost
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Lum Berry/Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale

 

[ElfinHilon10]

Having your own Goodra helps against specially-oriented Fire Pokemon. Also having your own Dragonite for the Fire Pokemon you mentioned works too:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Thunderbolt/Sludge Bomb
-Toxic/Dragon Tail
Nature: Modest/Quiet
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Choice Specs/Assault Vest
Ability: Gooey/Sap Sipper

or
-Dragon Pulse
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Thunderbolt
-Toxic/Dragon Tail
Nature: Calm/Sassy
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Gooey/Sap Sipper

Dragonite:
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Fire Punch/Thunder Punch
-Earthquake/Roost
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Lum Berry/Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale

What do you think about replacing Noivern with Goodra? I'd kinda prefer to keep Noivern since he is SO fast, but Goodra would be really really good with walls and wish... Combine that with Will-O-Wisp, and nothing physically can kill him.

Also, what about replacing Toxic/Dragon tail with Sludge wave. Gives me a fighting chance against pretty much all fairy types.

 

[PlatinumDude]

What do you think about replacing Noivern with Goodra? I'd kinda prefer to keep Noivern since he is SO fast, but Goodra would be really really good with walls and wish... Combine that with Will-O-Wisp, and nothing physically can kill him.

X/Y introduced a bunch of bulky Pokemon, so speed may not be everything. Test out which one you like better and see what works for you.

 

[ElfinHilon10]

X/Y introduced a bunch of bulky Pokemon, so speed may not be everything. Test out which one you like better and see what works for you.

Good idea. Will do. Thanks the help. I got my team now :)

 

[Ársa]

Ok here's the updated team. Also as a note, that I mentioned earlier, this is simply for random battles. From my experience in random battles, entry hazards are actually pretty damn rare, and most people just go for Sweepers/Ubers, so having a stealth rock remover is pretty much pointless.

Ninetails:
-Flamethrower
-Will-o-Wisp
-Protect
-Roar
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/228 SDef/32 Spe
Item: Heat Rock
Ability: Drought

Lilligant:
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain/Solarbeam
-Hidden Power (Fire/Rock/Ice)
-Sleep Powder
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll

Florges:
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast
-Aromatherapy/Toxic (Still unsure if I want to use Toxic over Aromatherapy. It provides extremely good utility for my team, where as with Toxic, I can sit and toxic the team over and over and protect and wish, making myself near invincible. That being said, I have Will-O-Wisp as well on Ninetails, and Toxic is countered by Steel, which will be SUPER common against Florges, as well as just simply switching in and out.)
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil

Heliolisk:
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Dark Pulse
-Sunny Day. (IF Ninetails get's KO'ed, his ability goes to waste. I need another pokemon with Sunny Day just in case.)
Item: Leftovers/Lifeorb (Leftovers preferred, as it makes the downside effect, HP loss, effectively worthless)
Ability: Solar power
Nature Timid
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 6 HP

Espeon:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic/
-Hidden Power (Fighting/Bug/Water)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce

OR

Noivern:
-Draco Meteor
-Boom Blast
-Roost
-Focus Blast/ Dark Pulse
Nature: Timid
Item: White herb/Left overs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Speed/252Spa/6HP

Blaziken:
-Flare Blitz
-High Jump Kick
-Poison Jab (for fairy, but honestly might be pointless with his insane damage on Flare Blitz anyway)/ Solarbeam (deal with ground/rock/water)
-Hone Claws
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Speed Boost
Item: Blazekinite


Let me know what you guys think. Added my little notes next to the side.

Did you actually look at anything I posted? :/

 

[ElfinHilon10]

Did you actually look at anything I posted? :/

Yeah but I don't really like HP fire on Lilligant. The other thing as well is is Rotom is another fire user, which makes me weak to rock and water again, for a 3rd pokemon. I'm not sure which one to choose, because I don't really like choice items...

Alright it's between these two.

Kitsune (Ninetales) (F) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SDef / 32 Spd
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Protect

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 Def / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Protect
- Wish

Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Blaziken (M) @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Protect
- Swords Dance

Klefki (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Sunny Day
- Dazzling Gleam

Noivern (M) @ White Herb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Roost
- Focus Blast
- Draco Meteor

OR

Kitsune (Ninetales) (F) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SDef / 32 Spd
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Protect

Florges @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 Def / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Protect
- Wish

Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Blaziken (M) @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Protect
- Swords Dance

Klefki (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Sunny Day
- Dazzling Gleam

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
- Volt Switch


Key differences is swapping Noivern for Rotom-H and using having Florges use Left overs in the second build.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Yeah but I don't really like HP fire on Lilligant. The other thing as well is is Rotom is another fire user, which makes me weak to rock and water again, for a 3rd pokemon. I'm not sure which one to choose, because I don't really like choice items...

Alright it's between these two.

Kitsune (Ninetales) (F) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SDef / 32 Spd
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Protect

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 Def / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Protect
- Wish

Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Blaziken (M) @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Protect
- Swords Dance

Klefki (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Sunny Day
- Dazzling Gleam

Noivern (M) @ White Herb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Roost
- Focus Blast
- Draco Meteor

OR

Kitsune (Ninetales) (F) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SDef / 32 Spd
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Protect

Florges @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 Def / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Protect
- Wish

Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Blaziken (M) @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Protect
- Swords Dance

Klefki (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Sunny Day
- Dazzling Gleam

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
- Volt Switch


Key differences is swapping Noivern for Rotom-H and using having Florges use Left overs in the second build.

What KOs does Florges achieve with Moonblast with its current spread? If that doesn't do anything, make the EV spread 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef.

Also, Noivern should be Timid because with that, it outspeeds Timid Greninja, which would KO Modest Noivern with Ice Beam before it gets to act. I'd also rather use Life Orb, since White Herb is better for Shell Smash sets, IMO.

Focus Sash is the better option for Klefki to ensure it does something before going down.

 

[ElfinHilon10]

What KOs does Florges achieve with Moonblast with its current spread? If that doesn't do anything, make the EV spread 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef.

Also, Noivern should be Timid because with that, it outspeeds Timid Greninja, which would KO Modest Noivern with Ice Beam before it gets to act. I'd also rather use Life Orb, since White Herb is better for Shell Smash sets, IMO.

Focus Sash is the better option for Klefki to ensure it does something before going down.

Klefki has prankster, so it's guaranteed something unless it's priority. Even a mach punch won't knock it down.

Noivern should have timid.. Don't know why it doesn't. Yeah Life Orb is better.

 

[Ársa]

What KOs does Florges achieve with Moonblast with its current spread? If that doesn't do anything, make the EV spread 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef.

OHKO's Garchomp from full health. Still retains bulk and hits far harder on neutral threats than the regular set. Just because it's not one of your go-to sets from Smogon doesn't mean it's not viable.