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Mass-Shooting in Orlando Gay Club

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
  • 21,082
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    This November you have a choice:
    -Vote for importation of people who will shoot you or throw you off rooftops then get called islamaphobic when you have the gall to complain about it, plus they want to you to have no weapons to fight back with. Will this campaign blow your head clean off?

    -Or people who don't want to bake you cakes.

    Mass-Shooting in Orlando Gay Club


    I can play too!

    - Vote for a party who wants equality before the law for everyone and recognises you as a valid person.

    - Or vote for people like you who won't recognise you as human beings, tell you you deserve to be murdered and send you to mental hospitals for sexual reeducation.

    One things for sure, Florida is going red :)

    ? Trump's racist issues aren't going away.

    Finally, if almost the entirety of your public representation for your sexuality is heavily communist, socialist, anti-gun, anti-free speech etc. then don't be surprised that the people who hate those things decide they don't like you either.

    So that means I am allowed to murder people whose ideas I disgree with? Cool.

    It's not a matter of whether I like conservative people who are anti-progress, pro-violence, anti-free-speech-you-disagree-with, anti-human rights, etc. It's a matter of tolerating each other.

    I have no pity for the lgbtbbqwerty community, you reap what you sow. They almost exclusively vote Democrat, who want to import the people who kill them.

    That is one of the most disgusting things I have read in a long time. "They vote for the party I don't like, they might as well be murdered for all I care."

    I guess you may even sleep well at night, which is scary.
     

    Her

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    Meh. You import people from these countries and you're gonna have problems. Especially the children of immigrants who don't know how ****ty their home countries were and try to emulate it more strongly because they feel disconnected from their cultural and ethnic roots.
    Source: The Economist

    Source: From LA times article.

    Perhaps his views on homosexuality stem from his upbringing, we can't know that for sure. No one will know the root of his hatred towards the gay community. Perhaps it was unfortunately a learned habit from his youth. But what we do know is that he had long since stopped practicing Islam and was not any more involved in the religion than an ex-Catholic who is also racist, abusive and homophobic. His family have also denounced his actions and made it clear that this is not related to their family or their religion. Ergo, Islam is not a factor here. His motivations were based on intolerance that he strongly held on to throughout his life, beyond any apparent religious motivation. He was an evil person on his own merits. It was hatred for hatred's sake - he has been documented as racist, abusive, misogynistic, it goes on. The point is that his only connection to Islam is that it features in the namesake of the terrorist group he was trying to gain the approval of.

    However, given what you say later on in your post, you have exactly zero claim to any sort of moral superiority.

    He was also employed by a company that does contract work for the U.S government: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016...-which-tranports-illegal-immigrants-deep-insi

    If you're on a terror watch list how do you get to work for a security company and have government agents not surveying you 24/7? My bet is that his company and the FBI were too afraid of being called "islamophobic" to do anything about it.

    In what world is the American government afraid of harassing, demonising, torturing, illegally imprisoning and outright murdering Muslims? I can't speak on behalf of the FBI and nor would I want to, because fuck 'em, but I can only guess that it's a matter of them missing the mark rather than 'fear of being Islamophobic.' The legacy of the last couple of administrations is their blatant hatred of Muslims. Don't be oblivious.

    I have no pity for the lgbtbbqwerty community, you reap what you sow. They almost exclusively vote Democrat, who want to import the people who kill them. Omar Mateen was a registered Democrat: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/orlando-shooting-suspect-identified-omar-mateen-us-citizen (find word "democrat" on page.)

    It's amusing that since the whole gay marriage thing is wrapping up the left wing are moving on to greener pastures for vote pandering, namely muslims and Mexicans.

    This November you have a choice:
    -Vote for importation of people who will shoot you or throw you off rooftops then get called islamaphobic when you have the gall to complain about it, plus they want to you to have no weapons to fight back with. Will this campaign blow your head clean off?

    -Or people who don't want to bake you cakes.

    Yeah, nah, this isn't even worth responding to. It's too tiring. It's not even worth reading. I have no interest in giving a further modicum of time to explaining just how cruel and disgusting it is. You are a vile person.

    Finally, if almost the entirety of your public representation for your sexuality is heavily communist, socialist, anti-gun, anti-free speech etc. then don't be surprised that the people who hate those things decide they don't like you either.

    People don't like blatantly racist, heartless, virulently homophobic gun nuts either. But the difference is that those people tend to not kill others based on them being blatantly racist, heartless, virulently homophobic gun nuts.

    Log off. Tony Abbott got removed from power far too long ago for you to be trying to step up in his place.
     
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    Sir Codin

    Guest
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    Has anyone commented yet on this guy being a licensed Security Guard? Because it seems that for all the newfound debate on gun control, some of which I can get behind, it's entirely possible this guy got his weapons easily because of his job and the licenses he has giving him more privilege against Florida gun control laws.

    G4S stocks have gone down in wake of this incident. Currently it's down by 5%, probably going to be considerably lower by the time the market closes. Not surprising: a fucking monster being part of your firm and killing 50 innocent people in the biggest massacre in the nation's history will do that to your stock price.

    I'd say "pray" for the victims and their families, but a) I'm not religious and b) I highly recommend against praying when religion is one of the biggest reasons for LGBT's being persecuted, so I'll just simply say I wish the victims and their families peace in the coming days. And to everyone who's LGBT on this site, I'll say stay safe however you think is the best way to do so (whether sticking together in protest or joining Pink Pistols, just do something), stay vigilant, and don't let up on your cause.
     
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    ShinyUmbreon189

    VLONE coming soon
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    So one man with an assault weapon and handgun walked right into the most popular gay bar in Orlando, shot 103 people and killed half of them (which was first reported 4-5 people, then 20, then 50) without being stopped while reloading, while almost nobody called police but instead called friends and relatives, and now the government claims he was a crazy Muslim associated with ISIS, And the president is blaming guns, So let's ask questions.
    Why did 30 more people die since first being reported on?
    How did this guy get past a bouncer with an assault rifle and handgun? Especially with how popular "Pulse" is in Orlando?
    Why aren't any of the people killed identified to the public? Or to the families for a whole day? Don't you need an ID to get into a club?
    If this guy admitted to ties in terrorism and was investigated by FBI for 10 months, why was he able to legally buy guns?
    Why would the clubs online page post on social media "Run!" 10 minutes after the shooting? Do they really have time to pull up facebook during the deadliest massacre in America?
    And why is there absolutely no footage of this if the club has security cameras?
    Something smells fishy and If I'm wrong for asking questions or being skeptical, why would I want to be right?
     
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    It was being reported on as it happened. It's not always easy to get clear information out fast and the death toll of an event like this rising isn't uncommon. Your second question basically answers itself, and I don't know where you're going for your information but most of the names of the deceased have been released. As for how he managed to get the guns... America is your answer, basically, although I think Carchar might be right w/r/t his background in security. And I don't think security footage of mass murder is typically released to the public, especially this soon after the incident.

    So can we like... not turn a horrible tragedy like this into some dumbass conspiracy?
     
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    For pro-gun people, is there any reporting on whether people who were holding firearms were in the vicinity who were able to take down the shooter? Donald Trump says that the Paris attacks wouldn't have been as bad had people been armed - I wonder what people can say about the shooting in Orlando, where I presume people are more or less armed.
     

    Sir Codin

    Guest
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    For pro-gun people, is there any reporting on whether people who were holding firearms were in the vicinity who were able to take down the shooter? Donald Trump says that the Paris attacks wouldn't have been as bad had people been armed - I wonder what people can say about the shooting in Orlando, where I presume people are more or less armed.
    The bar was a Gun-free Zone, so I'd have to say at most "only a few" with "none at all" being more probable. The only people allowed to carry guns in these areas, concealed or otherwise, are military and law enforcement. Anyone else gets slapped with a felony for possessing a firearm on these premises. They're typically applied to schools, but other places can have them as well, including "any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose" according to Florida law.
     
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    I am sick of seeing posts by "friends" straightsplaining to me how this tragedy was caused by Islam when in fact Christianity has led to more violence, inequalities, and hatred toward LGBTQ people than any other ideological system.


    Though radical Islam is a problem...radical AND hegemonic Christianity is a more pervasive, powerful, and harmful ideological foundation of the US and abroad. We see the effects of Christianity in Africa and South American (Brazil) with regard to anti LGBT laws and ideologically-fueled violence as a result of European colonialism. Christianity is barbaric and has passages that commands followers to practice violence, misogyny, homophobia, and racism; I wish people would stop quoting passages from the same book responsible for harm against LGBT people domestically and abroad.

    Christian shooters are rarely identified for their religious identity despite how that identity may be salient to their actions -- as well as white-male identity rather than focusing on Islam as the only or central problem.
     
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    Talking with a friend about this reminded me that it's very possible many of these people who have been killed were not out to their friends or families and the media has outed them in one of the worst ways possible. I just... I don't know. It's an invasion of privacy to people who have already been killed in such a horrible way. Like, I really hoped that someone in the media thought to check with people who knew the victims to see if it would be okay to put their names out there, but I doubt it. I know it's "normal" to release the names of victims after an attack like this (how sick that anything about this could be normal) but I'm guessing that no one even though about whether it would be right to do that in this situation.
     

    Bounsweet

    Fruit Pokémon
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    • Seen Sep 17, 2018
    Why did 30 more people die since first being reported on?
    As with any mass shooting, as more victims are discovered after the crime scene has been cleared, it will go up. Also including the people who were shot but not immediately killed, died en route to the hospital, in the hospital, etc.
    How did this guy get past a bouncer with an assault rifle and handgun? Especially with how popular "Pulse" is in Orlando?
    Kimberly Morris, 37, became one of the first victims of the massacre. She was one of the bouncers of Pulse. That's how he got through.
    Why aren't any of the people killed identified to the public? Or to the families for a whole day? Don't you need an ID to get into a club?
    Family members, significant others, etc. need to properly identify and be noted of their loved one's death before it can be made a public statement. Considering that all 49 names have been announced in less than 48 hours of the attack, that is very speedy timing.
    If this guy admitted to ties in terrorism and was investigated by FBI for 10 months, why was he able to legally buy guns?
    Cause, America.
    Why would the clubs online page post on social media "Run!" 10 minutes after the shooting? Do they really have time to pull up facebook during the deadliest massacre in America?
    It's 2016. Social media is kind of a big deal and very effective with spreading news quickly, and speaking of...
    And why is there absolutely no footage of this if the club has security cameras?
    There is footage, taken by Amanda Alvear, 26, who also became a victim. She posted videos to her Snapchat story while in hiding, in which gunshots can be heard in the background.

    A lot of common sense, and a little bit of Google, can go a long way.
     
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    I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think the scariest part of all this is that despite how horrific this act was, I don't feel horrified. It's gotten to a point now when this sort of thing is actually normal. We hear about it so often that it's so easy to shrug it off as "just another mass shooting" without batting an eyelid. Now that is truly horrifying.

    Something in the US has to change and fast, but I fear that with how hard it is to become emotionally invested in such tragedies now with their commonality it will be even harder to make that change happen.


    These are pretty much my thoughts.

    Also the fact that this is the biggest one on American soil yet the media coverage seems to be blowing over far quicker than previous ones.
     
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    It seems that such shootings are now endemic in the culture.

    I wish people would stop quoting passages from the same book responsible for harm against LGBT people domestically and abroad.
    Generally, homosexuality is not the primary focus of the Bible, for instance, so people do not usually treat homosexuality as the Alpha and Omega of that book.

    Except perhaps in liberal Protestantism.

    The perpetrator's family released a statement saying that he was not a practicing Muslim and apologized for his actions.
    Obviously, they're not speaking in favour of him on this, rather trying to preserve their own reputation, nonetheless his allegiance to an Islamic group would imply that he identified as Muslim. They can't really apologise on his behalf, in this case, but anyway.

    -Vote for importation of people who will shoot you or throw you off rooftops then get called islamaphobi
    Sadly, the throwing of people off roofs custom hasn't quite reached the US in full force as yet. It would be a definite improvement on the deletion or non-deletion of accounts.

    People there aren't (generally speaking) selfish jerks when you encounter them in public.
    This is exaggerated. There is a reason why they were close allies, to the point of Britain having often been merely a domestic servant of sorts to the USA. Perhaps in 'public' they could put on a decent show, but when it comes to contexts touching on their career, or general private life, they are highly 'selfish' and not that distinct.

    The Orlando shooter's father has said
    Generally speaking, somebody who was anti-homosexual would generally be uncomfortable or annoyed by places where such was normalised, that needn't imply that they weren't already opposed to this, or really that it had much influence on their views so far as that was concerned.
     

    Elysieum

    Requiescat en pace.
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    It is heart-wrenching to see the published cellphone messages of these victims as this occurred. And I agree about the macro horror of this - that the frequency of these events is causing desensitisation. It is approaching normality.

    What is there left to say about ISIS? Religious extremity follows us into a time when it should have been shaken off humanity's heels long ago.
     

    Mewtwolover

    Mewtwo worshiper
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    Ah yes, Obama's secret heist to take away our guns- to fake the deaths of 50~ innocent people and put a bunch of fake blood at the scene, What a rascal.

    Honestly, it's a weird immediate knee jerk to literally every mass shooting that they're fake. "Sandy hook was child actors", ect
    Although the fact he frequented the club is interesting, it doesn't mean he's gay, though? and it's a weird way to interpret a guy who seems to be attracted to both genders.

    (Also please note that the website linked above is very much racist/white supremist and generally awful, talking about "the jew conspiracy", "reverse racism" "The homocaust" and "The enemy within" (jewish people) just within the related stories of that article. It is not trustworthy in the slightest.)
     
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    It always amazes me how quickly people's minds jump to crazy conspiracies in the wake of a tragedy, and it's kind of disgusting to use something like this to push some dumb "Obama wants our guns" agenda. Have some respect for the deceased and their families.

    The Daily Mail is a terrible source and just because one person says he frequented the bar doesn't mean that he was gay. I really, really hate the "they're homophobic because they're secretly gay" rhetoric straight people always push so I'm skeptical at best of these reports. It's entirely possible he was visiting the bar to scope it out before the attack.
     
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    REPORTS: Orlando shooter was a regular at the gay nightclub he attacked, used multiple gay dating apps

    The man who the police say killed 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando early Sunday morning had visited the club at least a dozen times before carrying out his attack, a witness told the Orlando Sentinel on Monday.

    The shooter, identified as 29-year-old Omar Mateen, may have also used several different gay dating apps, according to reports from MSNBC and the Los Angeles Times.

    And a former classmate of Mateen's told The Palm Beach Post he believed Mateen was gay and that Mateen once asked him out romantically.

    Three additional witnesses confirmed that they had seen Mateen at the gay nightclub more than once before.

    "Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and belligerent," one witness, Ty Smith, told the Sentinel.

    "We didn't really talk to him a lot," he added. "But I remember him saying things about his dad at times. He told us he had a wife and child."

    Chris Callen, who performs at Pulse under the name Kristina McLaughlin,told The Canadian Press and CNN's Anderson Cooper that Mateen had been going to the bar one or twice a month "for at least three years."

    Smith later told The Canadian Press that Mateen said he " couldn't drink when he was at home - around his wife, or family. His father was really strict."

    Smith and Callen say they stopped talking to Mateen when he pulled a knife on them after they made a religious comment.

    "He said if he ever messed with him again, you know how it'll turn out," Callen said.

    Reports of Mateen's flashes of anger and aggression align with what Mateen's ex-wife, Sitora Yusufiy, told CNN on Sunday night.

    "In the beginning he was a normal being that cared about family, loved to joke, loved to have fun, but then a few months after we were married I saw his instability," she said. "I saw that he was bipolar and he would get mad out of nowhere. That's when I started worrying about my safety."

    She told reporters earlier on Sunday that Mateen had beat her and emotionally abused her while they were married from 2009 to 2011.

    An Orlando man told MSNBC's Chris Hayes on Monday that he had seen photos of Mateen on the gay dating apps Grindr, Adam4Adam, and Jack'd over the past several years. At least two of the man's friends had been contacted by Mateen on the apps.

    "He was very creepy in his messages, and I blocked him immediately," the man said.

    Kevin West, another regular at Pulse nightclub, told the Los Angeles Times that he chatted with Mateen on and off for a year on the app Jack'd but had never met him in person. Incredibly, West said he met him for the first time as he was dropping a friend off at Pulse on Saturday night.

    "He walked directly past me," West said. "I said, 'Hey,' and he turned and said, 'Hey,'" and nodded his head, West said. "I could tell by the eyes."

    A regular performer at Pulse told Cooper of CNN that he saw Mateen there a couple of times a month, often with another man.

    The reports come after Samuel King, a drag queen, told The Daily Beast that he had befriended Mateen while the two worked next door to each other in Fort Pierce. King said Mateen had seemed generally accepting of the fact that he and his friends were openly gay. King said he even recalled Mateen going at least once to the nightclub where King performed.

    A former police academy classmate of Mateen's told The Palm Beach Post on Monday he thought Mateen was gay and that Mateen once asked him out romantically.

    The classmate, who did not use his name, said he, Mateen, and other classmates would sometimes go to gay bars after classes at the Indian River Community College police academy.

    He told The Post he thought Mateen was gay, but not publicly. He added that Mateen was "awkward" and other members of their friend group felt sorry for him.

    "He just wanted to fit in and no one liked him," he told The Post. "He was always socially awkward."

    Mateen, a US citizen born in New York in 1986 to two Afghan immigrants, was living in Fort Pierce, Florida, when he rented a car and drove to Orlando to carry out the attack on Sunday morning. An FBI representative said Mateen "was organized and well prepared" for the attack, and the ATF confirmed that he was armed with an AR-15 assault-style rifle and a handgun that he had legally bought a few days before.

    Mateen was a security guard and had a Florida firearms license that allowed him to carry concealed weapons. He called 911 during his rampage at Pulse and pledged allegiance to the Islamic State, while also expressing sympathy for the Boston Marathon bombers and an American suicide bomber who died fighting for Al Qaeda in Syria.

    The overnight shooting at the gay nightclub is the deadliest shooting in US history, with more fatalities than the mass shooting at Virginia Tech in 2007 (32 dead) and the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, in 2012 (27 dead).

    Mateen was the subject of FBI investigations in 2013 and 2014 - the first after he made inflammatory and contradictory statements about terrorism that raised concern with his coworkers, and the second after a source close to the FBI indicated that he may have had ties to the American suicide bomber who prayed at his mosque in Fort Pierce.

    The director of the FBI, James Comey, said on Monday that Mateen had mentioned having links to Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and the ISIS in the past three years but that the FBI investigations were closed because of a lack of evidence.

    sauce: https://www.businessinsider.com/omar-mateen-pulse-visited-orlando-shooting-2016-6

    It seems that he's visited the bar for much more than scoping it out for an attack.
     

    Pinkie-Dawn

    Vampire Waifu
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    If Muslim terrorism wasn't involved in this news, then anti-LGBT groups would've used this information as a scapegoat as to why legalization of gay marriage was a bad thing, let alone the fact that this scenario can still occur within heterosexual groups as well. That only leaves us to the gun control debate, unfortunately.
     
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    So Omar Mateen was a Yandere.

    It seems that he's visited the bar for much more than scoping it out for an attack.
    Generally speaking, if he felt that homosexuality was that important to him as a positive motivation, he probably wouldn't have killed that many people for it, as he would value it. In any case, apparently he didn't get along with people there that much, so he probably wasn't that adjusted to the context. You wouldn't generally expect someone who disapproved of homosexuality in many ways to 'fit in' in contexts where such things were normalised, but anyway. He also became more harsh about his 'marriage' sooner rather than later, apparently. In general, he seems to have been easily influenced into things which were normal in a given context, as for example in the West, but then highly repentant about it.

    It's also notable that he used to be a security guard before doing this. As such, his life has some fairly definite patterns.

    The overnight shooting at the gay nightclub is the deadliest shooting in US history, with more fatalities than the mass shooting at Virginia Tech in 2007 (32 dead) and the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, in 2012 (27 dead).
    There have been quite a few of these in the West recently, increasingly so. The choices of location - gay nightclubs and academic facilities - are also interesting. It's possible that the settings have a lot in common.
     
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    Generally speaking, if he felt that homosexuality was that important to him as a positive motivation, he probably wouldn't have killed that many people for it, as he would value it. In any case, apparently he didn't get along with people there that much, so he probably wasn't that adjusted to the context. You wouldn't generally expect someone who disapproved of homosexuality in many ways to 'fit in' in contexts where such things were normalised, but anyway. He also became more harsh about his 'marriage' sooner rather than later, apparently. In general, he seems to have been easily influenced into things which were normal in a given context, as for example in the West, but then highly repentant about it.

    Can you elaborate on this? Your use of clinical words makes it a lot harder to read than if it was done colloquially. I think it's more fair to say that he was either legitimately scoping the place out (Although this seems unlikely considering his use of gay dating apps for 1 year + beforehand) or instead just both mentally ill and unable to cope with his own sexuality (gay bi or otherwise) in the face of his own beliefs/opinions/those of his family ect. It's one of the leading theories now of why he targeted the bar specifically- to kill people that represented things he hated about himself while trying to do something he'd been radicalised to believe would "absolve him" of his "sins" and give him an in to a post-death paradise

    It's also notable that he used to be a security guard before doing this. As such, his life has some fairly definite patterns.

    This part in particular i'd like to have elaborated to me, because it doesn't actually seem to be linked at all to what was said before? Most people's lives have patterns overall but i'm interested to know why this more so in your opinion
     
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