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Modern Racism: Officer Wilson Walks

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Raven Valt

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  • People who say that the colour of the cop and the victim doesn't matter are naive.


    African American Cop shoots a White or Black person nothing would have come from it.
    White American Cop shoots a white person nothing would have come from it

    Racism, racism everywhere. More like the media needed a juicy news scoop to pump into everyone's faces and a white cop shooting an African American was just that juicy scoop they wanted.

    Being an Englishman I don't all that much take interest in what happens in America but I have to say that it is a rather similar case to the Mark Duggan incident in 2011, where he was being arrested for planning an attack and tried to pull a handgun on police and he was shot in the chest which resulted in him dying, at no point after this was the police officer who shot him investigated but as usual the media picks up on it and brands it as "black male shot by police". And ofc this led to mass riots in London and as every person who live in the UK knows the riots were actually not even about Mark Duggan but were used as an excuse to go looting, people who didn't even know Mark Duggan set up events on "BBM or Blackberry messenger" a popular mobile phone texting feature for the blackberry phone. How did the police respond to these riots? With live ammo and tear gas? Nope. They used Riot shields to force the rioters back and anyone who strayed too near were either shot with a water cannon and people who were violent were shot at with RUBBER BULLETS.

    Anyway back to this story, like people mentioned if the kid tried to disarm the police officer what do you think he would have done? Told the cop to get on the ground and then run? Nah he would have put a bullet in the cop. If the actions the police officer took were ones that are issued to by the state (I don't know what the dos and don'ts are for America) then the police officer had every right to shoot him. If a police officer feels there life or anyone elses life is in danger they should have every right to shoot the person causing that danger, someone who looks as if they may be pulling a gun or attempting to take a police officers gun are stupid, if a police officer wants to talk to you regardless of either they believe you to be a suspect or not, under no circumstance should you give them the suspicion you may be carrying a weapon.
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
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  • I will now try to source everything that I've pointed out as best as I can. I didn't want to quote everything because it would be too long, so I just left in the parts that are related to the links/sources. Also @ Zekrom, I didn't really mean it in that way, I just feel like most people aren't willing to change their view on it even if they would be shown hard evidence, but I can't make assumptions I guess.

    Officer Wilson did not know about a robbery/it wasn't reported/it was unrelated/it was not Michael Brown
    https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft
    https://www.ksdk.com/story/news/loc...ef-officer-didnt-know-about-robbery/14124259/
    https://newsone.com/3045219/ferguson-police-chief-admits-mike-brown-shooting-not-related-to-robbery/
    https://countercurrentnews.com/2014...lieve-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/

    The autopsy report results, and evidence that supports Michael Brown running away
    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=1
    https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014...render-position-when-Darren-Wilson-killed-him

    Distance from the van where he was killed, and the police lying about it (also supports that he was running away)
    https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014...killed-148-feet-away-from-Darren-Wilson-s-SUV

    The eyewitness accounts in video's
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRbiEZ_vIOQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GEmBhV8RB4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tTsEYE3Ms

    Important videos to watch regarding the grand jury's decision and more
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVzcrSzirrs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MlEhoCIFwc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLZXj2xxis

    Darren Wilson's "injuries" proposed as "evidence" (does this really need elaboration? Darren Wilson claims that Michael Brown was punching him multiple times in the face and he said himself that he thought another punch could have been fatal)
    https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/24/7279311/ferguson-darren-wilson-injuries

    There are a lot of masterposts on the internet that compile facts and evidence, I obviously can't post them all. Darren Wilson also has a history as a bad officer, I didn't link anything to that because it's not really related to the points I was trying to make, but there is a lot of information on the internet about that as well.


    Also it is literally against the law to shoot someone who is running so.. I think one of the video's I posted supports that as well.

    Oh also, did I mention the eyewitnesses being killed by police now??
    https://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/deandrejoshua.asp
    https://www.sott.net/article/289631...file-of-eye-witness-to-Michael-Brown-shooting
    https://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1695060 (the link to the actual article itself doesn't work, but this will do)

    SORRY if I seem aggressive or whatever in my posts, I don't mean to come off that way, I'm just very passionate about this.
    That's a lot of stuff I wasn't aware of. I'll concede that it sounds more damning than I was led to believe based on my loose following of it.

    That said, I still don't have any idea what the guy's motive might have been if he did what he's accused of. I don't buy that it was simply about race based on what you've linked, it almost sounds like something else might have been going on that hasn't been reported, like for instance that Officer Wilson did something bad that he didn't want getting out and Brown was a witness to it. Also, I don't think that this is a representative case and I don't believe that most issues with police have much to do with race aside from racial profiling. I honestly believe most cops are good people who want to protect others but sometimes make mistakes.
     
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    Yoshikko

    the princess has awoken while the prince sleeps on
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    That's a lot of stuff I wasn't aware of. I'll concede that it sounds more damning than I was led to believe based on my loose following of it.

    That said, I still don't have any idea what the guy's motive might have been if he did what he's accused of. I don't buy that it was simply about race based on what you've linked, it almost sounds like something else might have been going on that hasn't been reported. Also, I don't think that this is a representative case and I don't believe that most issues with police have much to do with race aside from racial profiling. I honestly believe most cops are good people who want to protect others but sometimes make mistakes.

    The point is he should be convicted, like any other person would be if they did the same thing under the same circumstances. But with a grand jury that exists out of 9 white people and only 3 black people, when the maximum amount of votes needed for indictment is 9 (https://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-wa...d-jury-reaches-decision-in-michael-brown-case) he might not even get a trial. It's insane to me. They won't even convict him for manslaughter..

    Moreover, the claim on Darren Wilson's side that Michael Brown grabbed his gun and tried to take it from him literally hasn't been proven. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Probe-s-errors-exposed-grand-jury-files.html)
     

    «Chuckles»

    Sharky
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    imo it's only racist when people make it racist.

    I'm not saying what the officer was doing was right but American police sure do love to shoot pets, children, the elderly and anyone who decides to buy milk. The police in Ferguson shot 2 FBI agents for crying out loud. Obviously muh freedoms isn't working anymore.

    Also Obama putting a known corrupt cp in charge of fixing the police brutality that plagues america top kek
     
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  • I am impressed this thread has so many replies. I left for a little bit and didn't keep up with it. I see that some people believe that race doesn't enter into things like this and that the motivations behind these kinds of things are much more complicated. Research indicates that race really does play into it, even Blacks show a bias towards shooting other Blacks in a shooting simulation:
    https://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2002-08203-006

    People are more likely to shoot others that are not their own race if they believe the world is dangerous, which is a common belief of police officers:
    https://psp.sagepub.com/content/38/10/1358.abstract

    Black males are particularly at risk of this effect (fun fact: I actually did research with one of the authors on this paper! he is a swell guy):
    https://psp.sagepub.com/content/37/9/1274.abstract

    Apologies to anyone here not using a university VPN or who otherwise doesn't subscribe to these journals (probably everyone); but I think the abstracts probably speak for themselves. If anyone really wants to see any of these articles in their full, PM me or respond here and I can upload them somewhere.
     

    Yoshikko

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    imo it's only racist when people make it racist.

    I'm not saying what the officer was doing was right but [...]

    That's basically the same as people saying that racism will be over if we just stop talking about it. You cannot "make" something racist. If it's racist then it's racist, what you do or how you talk about it doesn't change it somehow? People are not just imagining that this is racist.
     
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  • That's basically the same as people saying that racism will be over if we just stop talking about it. You cannot "make" something racist. If it's racist then it's racist, what you do or how you talk about it doesn't change it somehow? People are not just imagining that this is racist.

    Not exactly. Again, there's a mean between two extremes. Racism won't be over if we just stop talking about it, but you can make something racialized when you focus on the racial disparity between two parties to the extent that you start conjecturing then believing that race or racist views was the cause of whatever event when it didn't exist or was marginal in the first place.

    Let's say I make fun of my black friend. Was this racially motivated, just because he's black? Given the one single statement I made you couldn't possibly make that kind of inference either way. But if a biased conclusion is made in the absence of information, that's when you've racialized something unnecessarily.

    And again, it's not about total racialization vs. no racialization at all. Again, it's not just two extremes. Of course there is a racial character to the Ferguson case, what with the differential representation of the population vs. the jury or the police force. Policing in America has racial character - your race determines how the system affects you. I'm Chinese. Nobody's ever going to frisk me. That policing affects people of different races differentially isn't controversial. However, one can over-racialize when they start making conjectures into whether Wilson was racially chauvinist and start throwing about epithets accusing him of being racist. Then, something is "made" racist or somebody is labelled a racist when it wasn't clear in the first place (and for people I'd advocate giving them the benefit of the doubt).

    The trouble is that people (being what they are) don't really filter this information critically, and start propagating these unsubstantiated views. Since views concerning race can be very subjective, nobody's views can be "proven wrong" but these views weren't standing on much ground to begin with. And in this way things can be unnecessarily racialized and there's nothing you can really do about it except not racialize in the first place.
     

    Yoshikko

    the princess has awoken while the prince sleeps on
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    Not exactly. Again, there's a mean between two extremes. Racism won't be over if we just stop talking about it, but you can make something racialized when you focus on the racial disparity between two parties to the extent that you start conjecturing then believing that race or racist views was the cause of whatever event when it didn't exist or was marginal in the first place.

    Let's say I make fun of my black friend. Was this racially motivated, just because he's black? Given the one single statement I made you couldn't possibly make that kind of inference either way. But if a biased conclusion is made in the absence of information, that's when you've racialized something unnecessarily.

    And again, it's not about total racialization vs. no racialization at all. Again, it's not just two extremes. Of course there is a racial character to the Ferguson case, what with the differential representation of the population vs. the jury or the police force. Policing in America has racial character - your race determines how the system affects you. I'm Chinese. Nobody's ever going to frisk me. That policing affects people of different races differentially isn't controversial. However, one can over-racialize when they start making conjectures into whether Wilson was racially chauvinist and start throwing about epithets accusing him of being racist. Then, something is "made" racist or somebody is labelled a racist when it wasn't clear in the first place (and for people I'd advocate giving them the benefit of the doubt).

    The trouble is that people (being what they are) don't really filter this information critically, and start propagating these unsubstantiated views. Since views concerning race can be very subjective, nobody's views can be "proven wrong" but these views weren't standing on much ground to begin with. And in this way things can be unnecessarily racialized and there's nothing you can really do about it except not racialize in the first place.

    You're treating this like an isolated incident which it isn't. A better analogy would be you always only making fun of your black friend out of all your white friends, and when he confronts you about it you tell him something like "oh it's just something I do with friends". You could give him a million of reasons why it wouldn't be racist but he and many others would know better.

    Also, you saying all this stuff about two extremes and that it's essentially somewhere in the middle - it's bullcrap sorry. Something can not be "just a little bit racist but not all the way". It's either racist or it isn't. There is no 10% racist.

    No, the problem is really that people look at this as an isolated incident.
     
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  • You're treating this like an isolated incident which it isn't. A better analogy would be you always only making fun of your black friend out of all your white friends, and when he confronts you about it you tell him something like "oh it's just something I do with friends". You could give him a million of reasons why it wouldn't be racist but he and many others would know better.

    Also, you saying all this stuff about two extremes and that it's essentially somewhere in the middle - it's bullcrap sorry. Something can not be "just a little bit racist but not all the way". It's either racist or it isn't. There is no 10% racist.

    No, the problem is really that people look at this as an isolated incident.

    I don't mean that Ferguson is an isolated incident at all in my previous post. Please take note of the following passage from paragraph 3:

    Of course there is a racial character to the Ferguson case, what with the differential representation of the population vs. the jury or the police force. Policing in America has racial character - your race determines how the system affects you. I'm Chinese. Nobody's ever going to frisk me. That policing affects people of different races differentially isn't controversial.

    The thing with my black friend is just an example to support the point that you can abstract racial character onto something that might not be racial at all. It's not an analogy for anything else.

    As for the simplistic conception that things either are or aren't racist, welp because most things in the world are binary.
     

    «Chuckles»

    Sharky
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    That's basically the same as people saying that racism will be over if we just stop talking about it. You cannot "make" something racist. If it's racist then it's racist, what you do or how you talk about it doesn't change it somehow? People are not just imagining that this is racist.

    Buddy I hope I'm not the first one to tell you that at the end of the day the only color screwing you over is greed. You could make a lot of money cashing in on the "fear of a black man".
     

    Corvus of the Black Night

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  • goddammit livewire that post was relevant

    I'd like to say that the title of this thread is a huge insult to the human race.

    Eh, not really, you could write a reasonable debate on either side. The more insulting thing is how people are acting in this thread.

    Ultimately I think this shows a larger problem in society. This thread honestly to someone who honestly doesn't lean either way shows that both sides have no interest in hearing the other's opinion, especially supporters. This is a problem because the more ignorant you are to the opposition, the more uneducated you are about that subject, and the more that you appear to be in frothing rage. You could be completely right in your opinion and truly be pointing out a true case of misjustice in our police system, but that doesn't matter if you are willing to ignore all counterpoints and label everyone who doesn't agree with you as a racist.

    Ultimately, while the case could be clear cut (it's not, although similar cases such as Garner and the 12 year old in Cleveland are), what is definitely not clear cut is the larger social implications of such a thing. It's easy to go look at what happens in the news and have it fuel are anger against the misjustice against black people - especially when cases against other races are usually ignored or never reach national levels - but perhaps not looking at the whole picture does indeed give us a skewed picture of what's going on here. As I stated in my relevant post that was deleted above (grr), sometimes things that appear to be racism can't really be that. What racism has Detroit faced in the last 40 years that directly oppressed them, outside of dumb facebook comments? Not much, since the population is 90% black and has been run by black people for over 40 years until the current mayor was elected in early 2014. You can't really claim that because white people fled in the 60s that people who weren't even born then or were just babies then are actively oppressing them. And sure, this isn't Ferguson, but I see Ferguson following the same path itself.

    It shouldn't be taken that black people are incapable of taking control of a city efficiently, it's that usually when a complete racial takeover like this happens, the city is already weak and the people who are left behind are those already living in poverty, so if corruption occurs in power, it's not very easy to counteract it.

    People still blame racism though and have been for years, but they keep ignoring the actual problem to continue to feed into their narrative. Perhaps people don't want to fund the city not because it's predominantly black but because the city has shown itself incapable of managing itself for decades. Or because the city has mostly declined and shown to be a terrible investment.

    Perhaps what I was trying to say is that the world isn't so black and white. Sometimes there are many factors going on and ignoring all but the most tantalizing of them means that your problems will perpetuate until you accept the existence of other possibilities. It's easier to simplify things but when things can't be that simplified you can draw some conclusions that truly don't exist.

    Perhaps the most offensive thing I found in this thread was the extent that some people were willing to hide evidence to support their opinion, as shown in the quotes for this post. What's particularly irritating here is that it doesn't really answer anything since the occurrence could have still happened due to racism, and the existence of this evidence doesn't do much to actually defeat your opinion, so why hide it under the rug? It makes it sound like you aren't willing to be honest, and that's something that's plagued this discussion since day one.

    I still find the motive of "Racism" a very weak limb to stand on in of itself, but whatever. I could be wrong.

    So please, people, be open minded and at least listen to the opposition long enough to understand where they are coming from. I don't automatically subscribe to what opponents are saying if I listen to them. It's a way of understanding where other people are coming from, and from someone who has been very neutral on this subject (thoughts of suicide kind of make things thousands of miles away kind of irrelevant), it's very clear that this is not happening here or most other places where this subject is being discussed.
     
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  • I'd like to say that the title of this thread is a huge insult to the human race.

    ???

    I wanted a thread to discuss modern day racism. I used a current event to illustrate the presence of current racism because some people still don't believe that racism exists. In your defense, I am pretty terrible at naming things. I once titled a paper "The Impact of Perceived Motivations to Avoid Prejudice on the Categorization of Multiracial Individuals by Black Participants." My co-authors wisely changed the title. "Hypodescent among black perceivers" is a lot better.

    @Detroit race chat:
    Detroit exists in a country where the greater society is skewed towards the majority group. It does not stand alone. It also is still dealing with the fallout from previous regimes. Inequality does not disappear in a generation or two. Detroit is also not anywhere close to 90% Black. Is EVERYTHING bad about Detroit racially motivated? Certainly not. No one is making that argument

    I remember seeing a lot of status legitimizing ideology in the post that was edited out but now I can't remember specifically what.
     
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  • I think the discussion of Detroit is trying to show that race is not the only issue. Sure, racial disparity influences corruption and poverty, but those are issues worth examining on their own terms. What I think daigonite is criticizing is the bias here that seems to conflate the problems of society to race. Not everything bad about Detroit is racially motivated, just like how the Ferguson case is not 100% about race. But we haven't been able to examine it in a legal light, nor relate it to corruption or poverty or poor institutions/governance.

    Perhaps we can't really expect the community to deliver a discussion about Ferguson in any context other than race, but it's still worth pointing out that there's a bias here to the detriment of a more well-rounded discussion. Be aware of the limitations of us and this thread, so to speak. For goodness's sake, I'm willing to put money that at least 90% of these 180 or so posts have been about race and racism. It would be nice for people to question and examine things like police hiring practices, oversight of the police department, the history of policing in Ferguson in a more sophisticated way than "they all white and that's bad".
     

    obZen

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  • I think the discussion of Detroit is trying to show that race is not the only issue. Sure, racial disparity influences corruption and poverty, but those are issues worth examining on their own terms. What I think daigonite is criticizing is the bias here that seems to conflate the problems of society to race. Not everything bad about Detroit is racially motivated, just like how the Ferguson case is not 100% about race. But we haven't been able to examine it in a legal light, nor relate it to corruption or poverty or poor institutions/governance.

    Perhaps we can't really expect the community to deliver a discussion about Ferguson in any context other than race, but it's still worth pointing out that there's a bias here to the detriment of a more well-rounded discussion. Be aware of the limitations of us and this thread, so to speak. For goodness's sake, I'm willing to put money that at least 90% of these 180 or so posts have been about race and racism. It would be nice for people to question and examine things like police hiring practices, oversight of the police department, the history of policing in Ferguson in a more sophisticated way than "they all white and that's bad".

    I think racism has distracted everyone from the real problem- power and money.
    If any of us had done the same, we'd be in prison by now. However, we're not officers, or in any positions of power. And most of us don't have a lot of money.
    Look at the white collar criminals- they get away with embezzelment of amounts of cash I can't even imagine.
    People of color have also gotten away with murder (many argue to death about OJ Simpson, Ray Lewis, George Zimmerman).
    The two things that these people have in common: money and power, where money = power
    Aaron Hernandez literally has a TEAM of lawyers. Where's my team of anything?

    In the case of Ferguson, MO, we have a highly corrupted case that just turned out disastrous, with a poorly selected jury and a prosecutor who was a MAJOR conflict of interest.
    Yet, everything is racism. To me, it's a huge imbalance of power, which has actually kept racism alive.
     
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    Oryx

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    goddammit livewire that post was relevant



    Eh, not really, you could write a reasonable debate on either side. The more insulting thing is how people are acting in this thread.

    Ultimately I think this shows a larger problem in society. This thread honestly to someone who honestly doesn't lean either way shows that both sides have no interest in hearing the other's opinion, especially supporters. This is a problem because the more ignorant you are to the opposition, the more uneducated you are about that subject, and the more that you appear to be in frothing rage. You could be completely right in your opinion and truly be pointing out a true case of misjustice in our police system, but that doesn't matter if you are willing to ignore all counterpoints and label everyone who doesn't agree with you as a racist.

    So please, people, be open minded and at least listen to the opposition long enough to understand where they are coming from. I don't automatically subscribe to what opponents are saying if I listen to them. It's a way of understanding where other people are coming from, and from someone who has been very neutral on this subject (thoughts of suicide kind of make things thousands of miles away kind of irrelevant), it's very clear that this is not happening here or most other places where this subject is being discussed.

    Just addressing this point - it's very easy to act objective and be calm and composed when the implications aren't "I am at risk of being shot in the street by the people supposed to protect me" for you. Being able to detach oneself enough to have a calm debate is a privilege. It's a tale as old as civil rights itself, people who are subject to systematic oppression being told that they're making the privileged feel uncomfortable with their anger and told to be quiet and listen. The sister to your "you're discounting your opinion if you're too mad when you say it!" is almost always "well you're not that angry so it can't be that big a deal so let's keep the status quo."
     

    Kyoe

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  • I'm sure that there will be people reacting negatively to this, so firstly I just want to say that I'm not here to argue. I'm going to post once, and likely not again. I ask that you all, regardless of which opinion you hold watch this video with an open mind. While I myself am not the man in the video, it's both extremely relevant and hopefully eye opening. If you all want to continue bickering after this, then be my guests.

    Caution: Strong Language!
    Spoiler:


    I sincerely hope that this has given you some new perspective, or at least opened you up to the idea of a differing one. Even still, all of you have a lovely day, or night.
     
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  • Just addressing this point - it's very easy to act objective and be calm and composed when the implications aren't "I am at risk of being shot in the street by the people supposed to protect me" for you. Being able to detach oneself enough to have a calm debate is a privilege. It's a tale as old as civil rights itself, people who are subject to systematic oppression being told that they're making the privileged feel uncomfortable with their anger and told to be quiet and listen. The sister to your "you're discounting your opinion if you're too mad when you say it!" is almost always "well you're not that angry so it can't be that big a deal so let's keep the status quo."

    I'd say what discounts one's opinion isn't anger per se, but poor arguments. No amount of anger is a substitute for a poorly made case. Daigonite's post was about just that: frothing rage, ignoring counterpoints, and name-calling.

    Anyways, I don't consider detaching oneself enough to have a calm debate to be a privilege, it is a skill to be developed and is accessible to everybody on whatever side of whatever issue. When we speak of privilege sociologically, we usually mean something that is restricted on group lines in such a way that it is prohibitive. Is it that difficult to be detached enough to have a calm debate if you have a direct stake in it? I really don't think so.

    @ the video I don't think it's really saying anything. It's great to exalt that everybody should contemplate and enlighten themselves. It takes us back to the rationalist movements of the 18th/19th centuries and the ancients. But I think everybody knows deep down, back then and now, that most people just aren't going to be rational about things. It's great that everybody should be an enlightened and thinking man, but people have desired this for thousands of years and we really don't seem to be a single step closer to that ideal.
     
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    Corvus of the Black Night

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  • Just addressing this point - it's very easy to act objective and be calm and composed when the implications aren't "I am at risk of being shot in the street by the people supposed to protect me" for you.
    Ultimately though, my question is this (which isn't really addressed by your post) - regardless of whether or not you do have fear of being harmed because of an unstoppable force doesn't mean that that fear is justified, especially when the problems associated with that fear could be rooted in other things. Even if the fear is true and genuine to those who feel it, that doesn't explain where the root of the problem is. And you cannot be expected to remotely approach that problem if you aren't willing to consider all possibilities. Yes, the fear of being killed for being black can be very real to the victim, but that won't stop the problem if this is publicized and it turns out the problem is an issue with crime rates in the area or financial woes, and racism stems from those issues itself.

    It would be kind of like saying that I can't think of things logically regarding my own mental issues as I approach a therapist, because I'm upset about them. We all analyze things very differently, I am simply a very logical and matter-of-fact individual. That does not imply that I'm incapable of empathy and that very suggestion shows that you have little interest outside of loading your words with guilt into my mouth.

    Being able to detach oneself enough to have a calm debate is a privilege. It's a tale as old as civil rights itself, people who are subject to systematic oppression being told that they're making the privileged feel uncomfortable with their anger and told to be quiet and listen."
    So I ask you for a second to sit down and perhaps ask yourself.

    What makes me so privileged?

    What makes me sound like I'm plugging my ears and say, "lalala I'm not listening"?

    You don't know my history, my life, my challenges. It's very easy to say, "well, you're white, so you have white privilege", but privilege ultimately is non-quantifiable. I face issues due to a wide range of issues. We can discuss all day about how some of my problems are continually erased because I have supposed "white privilege", levels of oppression . We can talk about how the absolutely atrocious state of how disabled individuals are treated in this country, levels that most able-bodied black people cannot even begin to imagine. We can talk about the number of people who, while I was borderline suicidal, told me about how horrible of a person I was for holding the opinion of "rioting is bad and Ferguson is a tragedy", even some telling me to kill myself. We could go on all day about how I have secrets that could make me lose my job and my possibility of ever getting a new one, we could go on all day about how said secrets could ruin my life and lock me into a corner for the rest of my life because people simply don't understand.

    Perhaps because of my experiences I realize that greater problems exist. Perhaps because of my experiences that I analyze things in a different perspective. I don't sit in an armchair and try to take measurements, unlike many people in this thread. I have gone to scary ass places in the world, listened to those who lived there, learned about the experiences of others, lived experiences, faced hatred, faced bigotry, faced shame and disgust for no more than who I was, to realize that society's problem against certain individuals is not one that lies solely in race, but a grandiose multitude of factors that must all be considered. I do not sit on an armchair and look out at the world while listening to the television, I interact with it 5 out of the 7 days in every week. And that's just the race part! Some bits I deal with every day!

    It's not like I don't face problems. I face problems that some people may think are insurmountable. I have faced my fair level of active oppression both from public school districts, the area I grew up around, and the general public my entire life. Simply because you don't believe it exists because I'm white doesn't mean I've never faced it. Just because you feel like I've never been in a situation where I thought that my life was at risk because of the way that I present myself doesn't mean that I never had been in that situation.

    And that's where a big problem in this entire issue lies. People only see a few traits and automatically try to categorize them on a "privilege scale" of sorts, and try to sort them in a hierarchy of oppression. But oppression doesn't work that way. Victimization can target anyone, at any time, regardless of race, gender, age or prosperity. Life is an unkind beast who is based in cruelty and unfairness. True equality doesn't start until you target what truly is unfair in your life. Not simply finding the easy way out but truly analyzing all possibilities and interpreting all possible routes. Yes, racism can be one, but so can income, so can crime rates in that area, so can the officer's fear or mental state, so can even the people he was around at the time. All of these things could have influenced actions on both ends.

    Do you believe that my life has never felt threatened by the individuals who were supposed to protect me? How do you know this as a fact? Perhaps not the police, but I have felt that my well being and my future were on the line not only due to society but even because of my parents due to fears of mental instability because of a wide range of individual problems?

    Is that somehow "not feeling safe by the people who are supposed to protect me"? Can you please dare explain to me how somehow being threatened with being locked up eternally for mental issues beyond my control is somehow any more desirable of a fate than being shot on the street for being black? Can you please dare explain how I am supposed to erase these problems from my entity just like he is supposed to shed his skin colour, as you appear to boil my argument down to?

    But how can you expect to "check someone's privilege" when a wide variety of issues that can change where your privilege truly lies exists? Stevie Wonder is a black blind man who is far more "privileged" than most people on this forum will be in their lifetimes - but if we just look at the cover, we would think he would be one of the most oppressed individuals in society. The inverse is true with white families who suffer from financial instability, internal unrest, domestic abuse. If both Stevie Wonder and that poor white family had children, who had no option into what world they were raised in, which child should be told to "check their privilege"?

    Would those children even truly be capable of being compared?

    This doesn't even address the fact that people who did indeed face daily oppression, such as Martin Luther King Jr (although he got assassinated, so that means he sucked at his activism apparently), were able to keep "calm and detatched" despite the very blatant racial tension that he faced. He was able to be extremely peaceful, despite the fact that people tried to (and succeeded at) killing him, was thrown in jail and faced levels of oppression that people these days can barely even imagine. It's kind of a disservice to assume that those who are observing things from a different perspective are somehow incapable of empathizing with those who are dealing with it in person, especially to those who do deal with these issues and witness them every day from a personal perspective. Do you believe that MLK just assumed that everything was because of race, or do you think he analyzed his situation for all possibilities before considering it? Because considering his logical and well thought out appeals, I think he really did think about things instead of reacting on a hair trigger knee jerk reaction.

    And sometimes, yes, bigotry is the answer to the question. But not always. And to give yourself a glass slipper that seems to fit the foot may seem like a good idea, but if there are other problems, other inaccuracies, other possibilities you will ultimately find yourself in a world of hurt. I have stared in the face of bigotry many times at my life but I never just assumed it at first, because maybe there are other possibilities that are contributing to the problem, and maybe even produce the bigotry in question.

    If there's any lesson I can tell you, I learned something precious from a man who faced 100 times more challenges than me, and pretty much most people on this forum for that matter. My blind ex boyfriend taught me that it's not the number of problems that you have to face, but how you deal with them, and how you push through life. Unlike most black people, he will likely be declined from most jobs, because black people don't have to worry about lazy software developers forgetting to use alt tags, or employers automatically assuming that you have no employ-ability despite having the degrees to prove it. Most black people will never have to deal with the daily ridicule and social aversion to his condition. Most black people will never have to deal with the inability to integrate himself into society - not because he's unwilling, which is true with particular minorities - but because society is truly unwilling. But he taught me that my problems were real. That I didn't need to sit down and listen and shut my mouth, that we could both talk about our problems. Yes, he encountered many more challenges than I ever did, but not at one point did he ever tell me that I should stop talking, and that my problems weren't real. We took care of each other. We didn't see "oh poor oppressed baby", we saw human beings who faced problems and inequality. Equality isn't about putting people's problems on a hierarchy, it's about doing the exact opposite, and investigating the root cause of problems - not just the most obvious, blatant or apparent, because sometimes those issues have deeper roots in oft ignored causes.

    But let's be frank here. If you think that I have a calm approach to my issues, then you clearly don't know me very well. I guess though we can continue to ignore these problems to continue to feed our race narratives and assume that white people are completely incapable of empathy with a situation of feeling unsafe and having their well being threatened.

    So why don't you sit down and stop telling people who you automatically assume are more privileged than you because of one or two traits that you happen to know about them and realize that the world isn't as one dimensional as black and white. Because ultimately, if that's what you care about, then you do nothing but continue to erase the issues of others, by prioritizing what you personally feel affects people more. You're just as bad as the people who say that "white people deserve more attention", if you're claiming that somehow I am incapable of feeling the feelings that black people feel, because let me tell you something - I don't know every experience in the world, but you are one brave soul to dare tell me that "I've never felt like my well being has ever been threatened and that I can 'think logically and detatched from a situation'" because you perceive that I have never encountered that level of hardship in my life.

    The sister to your "you're discounting your opinion if you're too mad when you say it!" is almost always "well you're not that angry so it can't be that big a deal so let's keep the status quo.

    And yet you continue to feed into the status quo (along with many others in this thread) by not approaching other possibilities. Perhaps my point was that there are other issues underneath those that exist and not everything is just a matter of race but a multitude of various conditions that are far more workable than simply racial bigotry.

    Ultimately if we look at the situation, the accusation of simply "he's racist" is weak in of itself. Yes, there are people out there who want to purge out black people (just like how there are people who want to purge out white people, or any race for that matter). However, these people are not common in society, and are openly shunned by most people (outside of specific sects). Perhaps the problem was fueled by racism, but also by a multitude of other problems. Perhaps the problem was fueled by the fact that black people in urban areas tend to be more likely to suffer from poverty, which means that more will turn to crime, which consequentially puts them at the end of the police officer. What is to say that wasn't the problem in of itself? These problems go hand in hand but just highlighting the racism isn't going to go and erase the source of the problem.

    What if the problem is that which lies in other causes? Then ultimately that means that blaming everything on racism is moot, and has toxic effects as well. You ultimately create racism by telling people that they're automatically racist. Again, with my Detroit example, people use the fact that 1) Detroit has been on a downward spiral, 2) Detroit has been run by mainly black individuals for 40 years and 3) black people in Detroit blame white people for a gross majority of their problems, which leads to white people holding animosity towards many black people because of how they are treated. How can you expect people to possibly even try to assist you if you are constantly poisoning their well and telling them how horrible they are, even when they have not had a hand in actively oppressing you in almost 40 years in most cases? This doesn't even mention that the initial problem, which may not be rooted in racism, is never addressed.

    Another example is that I know coworkers who have told me that "men are inherently misogynistic and can never erase their misogyny". She claimed that these things were restricting her job title and recognition in the company. While it could be true that these issues are rooted in misogynistic causes, by assigning "misogyny" with little investigation into the subject, not only do you forgo other possibilities (such as a mistake or seniority) but you divide yourself among others. What if the men of the office heard that? They may start to build stereotypes around people who act like that woman and even extend to people who don't genuinely believe that. In a sense, she creates misogyny by claiming misogyny without exploring other avenues. It is true that she feels like her well being in some way is at risk because she feels like she cannot make the same accomplishments that a man can make and is inherently limited by sexism. But if that isn't true, then you ultimately limit yourself in the belief that sexism is the problem, by turning a blind eye to other possibilities.

    Apparently though, facing oppression means that thinking logically about your problems is not an option and that emotional rhetoric is just as viable as logical, even if evidence may suggest other problems.

    Continue to wear your blinders and forget that other possibilities exist. I'll be waiting for when you decide to take them off.
     
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