Nintendo is Falling Apart

[John Denver]

I can say one thing after reading that beautiful post, for any people pessimistic about Nintendo's future....


BOO ya!!!!!!!

I'm putting you on my hitlist you moocher >_>

 

[Flaming Torchic]

This is currently not Nintendo's greatest hour, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that they're falling apart. Indeed they have sold less consoles with each generation, but they still make a lot of money. So long as they keep making money, they won't stop making consoles (even if they're "dead last").

The problem with Nintendo, is that the Gamecube doesn't offer much variety. The most successful games on the Gamecube are made by Nintendo themselves, because their third-party support isn't as great as the Xbox's or the PS2's. If Nintendo truly is not content with their bronze medal, then they need to get more third-party support (some developers have already stated that they are interested in the Revolution, but you won't see many developers signing on until the Revolution is fully revealed).

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Cool off a bit folks! Just state your opinion on Nintendo, don't need console wars or even insulting owners of a specific product. You can say what you like from a competitor or even why you like it better without being rude, very easily.

 

[BlackCharizard]

I actually feel like nintendo is making all the wrong decisions. I have always been a nintendo freak. But, they have really let me down. Especially with the DS. When do they plan onmaking any real games for it?!?!? I'm not about to pay 40 bucks for pac pix! I'm only holding my ds for a few games that hopefully come out by this fall. Nintendo also has to really give up on Mario for a while. When I saw a commercial for NBA Street and then saw mario and peach doing tricks and dunks, I was stunned. Then, watching E3, I hear about this DDR Mario! If I like DDR enough to have already bought it, then im not gonna buy another one just to see mario and the gang dancing and a few extra add ins that nintnedo put in there. Anyway, I hope nintendo can find a way to appeal more to other people and a way to fix the stuff wrong.

 

[Brittany]

I think Nintendo is going downhill. They have many innovations, but most aren't largely pusued by developers or the average gamer just don't appreciate them. Their gaming is really innovative(same word two lines in a row =D) and all, but is becoming more of an acquired taste in my opinion. You may like pure gaming overall, but I can tell you that the average gamer doesn't. Playing DVDs and now Blu-ray movies without additional equipment are simple steps Sony is taking to get ahead of the competition. Now I don't want you to think I'm going completely Sony vs Nintendo in this discussion, but Sony is going past this to accelerate yet another step in this field.
In the e3 Sony press conferrence they showed multiple movies playing along simultaniusly and commented that any screen could become focused at a time, and that some of the screens could be online video chats or web browsers. It might not be a huge deal to you, but I'll bet you that the average gamer sees this as two steps forward for Sony and one step back for Nintendo. How about the fact that Nintendo has just moved to standard size media but Sony has acquired a format with over 7 times more space? I won't be suprised if down the road when gamers are emulating on the PS3, they stored every Final Fantasy on a single disc and played them all at once.

Again, these preferences might not apply to you, and you might just consider them stupid, but most current gamers don't think so. I think Nintendo's current fanbase can hold them for now, but unless they do something in the future I don't think Nintendo will be able to hold up any longer.

 

[DeltaSuicune]

Did any of you people bother to read my post on page 3? There's been so much rattering on the DS-PSP talk that I've lost track where the topic has strayed to...

@Tetsuya-san:
You obviously missed all the sarcasm in the second half of my post, that whole area is very cynically written, look over it again.

Who, on the other hand, envisioned shoulder buttons and full analog control many moons ago? Nintendo and roughly 5 other people, I'd imagine. Coaxing console gamers to play online isn't innovation, it's called giving the people what they want.

The PS2 has full analog buttons and always has, most games judt dont take advantsge of it. Star ocean: Till the End of Time made the analog an important factor in the battle style.

I've played one as well at my friends house, and I quite honestly wasn't that impressed. Wahoo, a tiny PS2 >> Also, there's no way you could play that thing in broad daylight, you cant frickin see the screen, XD

This brings back memories of the original GBA. Gave you ocular seizures looking at the screen (or conversely due to the lack of light) which is why they had to release the SP. You can't humanely see any screen in straight sunlight, way too much glare, ever conducted controlled scientific experinements? Compare them under equal circumstances so as to not bias your results. PSP has backlighting you know.

I know a lot of you are fiercely loyal to Nintendo and will say anything to uphold it's image, but you should learn to look at the industry facts that currently exist. Nintendo isn't the main innovative force right now contrary to what people may believe,

I don't know if I am really right, but I rebember Nintendo was founded in like 1880-1900. It is way too old and orignal to die to me. Soon in the future, cars may be made by nintendo and household items and things like that.

.........

just ... ...............

1889-1902 - Fusajiro Yamauchi, the great-grandfather of the present president, began manufacturing "Hanafuda," Japanese playing cards, in Kyoto. At this stage you can't really call the company Nintendo yet.

1975 - In cooperation with Mitsubishi Electric, Nintendo developed a video game system using an electronic video recording (EVR) player. They introduced the microprocessor into the video game system the next year.

1978 - Nintendo created and started selling coin-operated video games using microcomputers.

1980 - Nintendo announced a wholly owned subsidiary, Nintendo of America Inc. in New York. It started selling the "GAME & WATCH" product line.

1983 - Nintendo started selling the home video game console "Family Computer" employing a custom CPU and PPU (Picture Processing Unit), aka Famicon aka NES.

As for you people who keep saying things like the Eyetoy can't compare to Nintendo's "innovativeness", yet no examples of innovation have popped up. Name some, please.

Don't get me wrong, I used to love Nintendo, and sure want it to beat the Xbox, but they need several flaming kicks in the krotch until they realize they aren't doing anything new or interesting to please the gaming public right now. All the fans they have right now are people who've played Nintendo systems from long past, there's hardly any new attracted audiences.

~DS

 

[Lucifer.]

The PS2 has full analog buttons and always has, most games judt dont take advantsge of it. Star ocean: Till the End of Time made the analog an important factor in the battle style.

By "full analog control" I was referring to analog sticks. Maybe I should've made that a bit clearer. :dead:

 

[Steeleon]

Holy crap! I'm gone for a weekend and there is already four pages xD Well, this is interesting. Alot of you have given very good thoughts and opinions, and some have not.

 

[Dark Penguin]

I think Nintendo is going downhill. They have many innovations, but most aren't largely pusued by developers or the average gamer just don't appreciate them. Their gaming is really innovative(same word two lines in a row =D) and all, but is becoming more of an acquired taste in my opinion. You may like pure gaming overall, but I can tell you that the average gamer doesn't. Playing DVDs and now Blu-ray movies without additional equipment are simple steps Sony is taking to get ahead of the competition. Now I don't want you to think I'm going completely Sony vs Nintendo in this discussion, but Sony is going past this to accelerate yet another step in this field.
In the e3 Sony press conferrence they showed multiple movies playing along simultaniusly and commented that any screen could become focused at a time, and that some of the screens could be online video chats or web browsers. It might not be a huge deal to you, but I'll bet you that the average gamer sees this as two steps forward for Sony and one step back for Nintendo. How about the fact that Nintendo has just moved to standard size media but Sony has acquired a format with over 7 times more space? I won't be suprised if down the road when gamers are emulating on the PS3, they stored every Final Fantasy on a single disc and played them all at once.

Again, these preferences might not apply to you, and you might just consider them stupid, but most current gamers don't think so. I think Nintendo's current fanbase can hold them for now, but unless they do something in the future I don't think Nintendo will be able to hold up any longer.

By no means do i think the extra features Sony presents on their gaming systems are stupid, but i do feel that just because they give you other things with video games that does not mean Nintendo is going downhill. Sure Nintendo may not offer all of those features, but their consoles are cheaper, and the "average gamer" does not necessarily want to browse the interent on their gaming console. I would just rather take the 20 steps to my computer to browse the internet at full-capabilities, and not bother with an analogue stick and on-screen keyboard. And buying a keyboad would be dumb, as you could save what, $30, by taking 20 steps to your computer? Sony isn't as bad, but Microsoft is, in a way, going away from gaming, with giving their 360 extra functions, like wirelessly streaming pics and stuff from your PC. Why not just look at them on your PC? So you can have them on your big screen TV? That, in my opinion, is not worth the extra $150 or so bucks. And at their unveiliing of the 360, they spoke about how you could go on Xbox live and design TShirts and sell them for live points. Thats great, but WHO CARES?!?!?!? I want to play games, not make virtual TShirts and sell them online. Microsoft's presentation focused more on the person who would do dumb things like design T Shirts than play video games! Like i said, Sony is not as bad, but things like this is NOT what the "average gamer" is looking for. That is why i feel that if Nintendo keeps up their "gaming comes standard" approach, that when companies like Microsoft get so far away from gaming, people will get tired of all the useless extra features and come back to Nintendo.

Now Sony's features are at least more understandable. Watching movies on a portable game system is cool. However, with the PS2 talk about the DVD player, i didn't really care. Why? Becuase my family already has one. If you don't have one, and you can get one on your video game system, thats great. But personally, i don't want to fork over the cash for something i already have. I don't want to pay the extra money to watch multiple movies at the same time - my family's TV already can do that. As cool as that is, and while its MUCH better than Microsoft's ideas, i, and many other video gamers, don't feel the need for that, especially when its coming out of our pocket. And video chat is great, but again, thats what computers are for.

Now the extra media storage is great, and i would like that, but beggars can't be choosers. Overall, i have nothing against Sony (or Microsoft), i just feel that as the consoles come out with more and more features that people already have in other electronics, people will come back to the pure gaming consoles - for that what we buy them for, right? Games.

And also, someone posted a graph of the GCN compared to the other consoles, and duh the GCN has sold less than the NES and SNES, Nintendo didn't have [much] competition in those days - it was a near-monopoly.

 

[DeltaSuicune]

And also, someone posted a graph of the GCN compared to the other consoles, and duh the GCN has sold less than the NES and SNES, Nintendo didn't have [much] competition in those days - it was a near-monopoly.

Wow, someone's a post-modernist gamer, ever heard of the Atari 2600, Sega Genesis, or Playstation? It wasn't a monopoly in the console world, it was in the handheld that Nintendo's held the monopoly for years now.

Anyway, since you all must think I'm out to bomb the Ninty HQ, here's some positive information for you people about the Revolution. Well, educated speculation from an industry animator, nothing confirmed.

Now, I gotta admit, I am quite amazed by the simplicity of this idea, and we as Nintendo fans are gonna be laughing when Nintendo showcase their software later this year. In fact this feature could in fact drive Microsoft and Sony out of contension. When Nintendo downplay system specs and say, "we are doing things differently to our competitors", this is what they are referring to. I'm not betting that this is the revolution, because it has nothing to do with the controller. However it does have something to do with the specs, and Nintendo's reluctance to give them out.

Basically this patent is the next step in texturing... the next BIG STEP. It will not replace polygons, but enhance them beyond the conventional texturing of today. Has anyone approached the outer limits of a 3D world and been stopped by a horrible wall with a picture of trees on it. Well now that wall would have a textures with depth. The limbs would be detailed, bark could be rough the trunks could be twisted. Rocks and leaves could be scattered over the ground. But this is the best part, when you move sideways all that detail would appear to be produced by polygons! Imagine a photoreal tree modelled with polygons and bark. That would be a nightmare to model let alone produce in real-time. Developers don't need to pre-render these scenes, they could simply take a photo of a tree and sit at the computer and paint a depth-map. How much easier is THAT! This would work nicely for individual set pieces for example the pollen and petals on a flower. In order to do the flower a third opacity map would be needed... unless the flower was a perfect square.

Because you are dealing with a 2D image, there are gonna be some limitations. The trees are a bad example cos a tree has many leaves and branches that would obsruct the view of other trees and branches. A keyboard might be a better example. You could apply a depth map to a texture of the top of a keyboard... suddenly those keys pop out of the polygons and it looks as though each key is being rendered in realtime. I doubt however that the keys will be seen to actually pop away from the geometry of the keyboard, that is, if you look at a keyboard completely from the side the keys will not be visible. Because you need to be looking at the polygon that has the image mapped to it in order for the effect to work. If this sounds complicated tell me and I'll try to make it easier to understand.

I am willing to bet that Nintendo has optimized the hardware to be able to handle a lot of high resolution textures, and that these textures will be able to react to realtime lighting due to the depth-map which would indicate which parts of the texture are angled toward the light etc. This is when our jaws will drop. It can be done with very simple java coding and images on the internet right now, so why not put that technology to use?

Limitations.

No undercuts possible, so you'll never be able to see the back of those trees, unless a second depth-mapped texture is used for the other side... but I'm not sure that would work. The patent does discuss using 6 sides of the cube to create the scene, but this is not plausible due to the hi-res of those images and depth maps that would be required to give enough detail to an entire room... and undercuts will still pose and issue. Its like cutting a tree out of cardboard and positioning it further foward. Will we see a black hole where the tree came out of or will the space between the hole and the tree be filled in. Both could be used for different reasons.

Anything large using this technique would have to be static, ie. inanimate. Smaller set pieces might be able to be animated using Sofdec compression capabilities, bettles scuttling around are a good example of this. They are small and require only a few frames of animation. But who's gonna notice if they can see the beetle from every angle. I'm guessing polygons will be used for animate objects. This doesn't mean that animate objects cannot have depth textures applied to them... the keyboard for example can hit the floor. It will be the polygons that hit the floor though, not an animation of a keyboard hitting the floor. I guessing real time shadows will not be cast by the depth texture.

Another limitation is that you won't be able to move through the trees. As soon as you walk through the wall that displays the trees the image and illusion of depth would disappear. So therefore the developers would ensure that you can't walk though these walls (as they always have done).

This technique has its restrictions but it will give us a hell of a lot of eye candy. For example, y'know those tall, wire fences, that have interlocking wire. Developers could tile a depth texture and that fence will look absolutely God-like. Believe me you will notice. A door has engravings and embossments on it that really bump out to the amount of detail you could only dream about with polygons. Coats hang on the wall, so detailed and yet so easy for the developer to produce. Until Nintendos patent wears out they are going to have a 16 year monopoly on this technology and could argueably take control of the industry by that time!

The patent was filed before the announcement of the Revolution which means the technology was developed for the new console. Incredible.

THAT, if it materializes, WILL be revolutionary, ridiculously simple yet so amazingly wicked that it will slap several ownage stickers on the other next gen consoles.

~DS

 

[TRIFORCE89]

A source would be nice. ???

 

[Pretty Boy Sean]

I don't know if anyone posted this yet since I'm too lazy to look through the topic but you might want to read this.

https://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

 

[Casual Billy]

Excellent! Brilliantly enlightening! Thank you for the info, Infamous! My outlook on Nintendo has really changed.

 

[John Denver]

It's just that Sony has the "it" system right now, just like Nintendo had the "it" system 10 years ago. Nintendo is in no way going down hill (Nintendo makes almost as much as Sony does, and I'm not talking about games, I'm talking about Sony...the movies, electronics, everything). Nintendo doesn't get as much sales as Sony, but they make almost the same amount Sony doesn due to clever marketing.

Right now, everyone is focusing on the 360 vs PS3...MS is shooting at Sony and Sony is shooting back at MS. And both companies are taking heavy casualties. Nintendo may not be in the middle of this war, but that's just strategy. Nintendo doesn't need to be in the middle of the war to making profit (they already make more off games than MS does) so all Nintendo has to do is sit back and watch MS and Sony kill each other. In other words, keep doing what they're doing.

Different things become the "it" system over time. Right now, PS2 is in the lead. Not many people realize just how much money Nintendo makes. So all Nintendo has to do is wait for the opportunity when Sony makes a mistake, like being low in sales or releasing something stupid. And BAM, Nintendo can fly in with guns ablazing and take over the market again.

The most popular system works like a Sin Wave (pronouned "SINE" for those who don't know math). It has its ups and downs. One decaded, Nintendo will be the most popular, then PS2, then maybe Nintendo again, then who knows, X-Box? PS2 again? Nintendo again again? It all just depends on the market.

Bleh...Nintendo is not going down hill...they're just being the smartest company right now.

 

[Gorosaurus]

That was very interesting.. I never really thought of the financial hurt going online might've done to Nintendo. I knew for a fact that it wouldn't be very big with the consumers, but it'd of REALLY hurt Nintendo as well. Selling Rare when they were deadbeats, declining to charge for what should be free (Internet, etc), and cutting the fat off of their systems.. it's a good thing they are as tight on budget as myself

 

[Chairman Kaga]

The most popular system works like a Sin Wave (pronouned "SINE" for those who don't know math). It has its ups and downs. One decaded, Nintendo will be the most popular, then PS2, then maybe Nintendo again, then who knows, X-Box? PS2 again? Nintendo again again? It all just depends on the market.

I'd probably classify it more like y=tan(X), there are larger ups and downs that way XP Let's hope that Nintendo never equals ((2X+1)pi)/2, though...we have no idea what would happen then o_o;

 

[DeltaSuicune]

A source would be nice. ???

Have fun browsing the infinte web and the irc chatlogs then since this is 2nd-hand chat banter that's been edited up to proper language quality. It's speculation, do you really need sources for such non-concrete matters?

~DS

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Have fun browsing the infinte web and the irc chatlogs then since this is 2nd-hand chat banter that's been edited up to proper language quality. It's speculation, do you really need sources for such non-concrete matters?

~DS

If it's from a chat room type thing, then no. That's too hard and uesless. But from a forum, then yes. You can examine the credibility of the member that way.

 

[DeltaSuicune]

If it's from a chat room type thing, then no. That's too hard and uesless. But from a forum, then yes. You can examine the credibility of the member that way.

Then I'm going to have to take that comment as meaning that you didn't understand left from right in that tech rant. Shall I stop posting useful tidbits?

~DS

 

[DarkCircuit]

The following was meant to be a short comment on why Nintendo isn't dead at 1up.com. It turned into the following. Yes, its by me. [Didn't know I could write that much did you?]


Sometimes I think its rather a funny thing how gamers are so quick to call Nintendo "Dead" or "Dying" as if it doesn't have a fighting bone left in it. Old school gamers will quickly testify that they've been raised on Nintendo, yet, when the Next-Gen consoles come out, where do they flock? Ya, that's them over there by the PS3 and Xenon/360. The term "old school gamer" is being flaunted by people that have uterly deserted the company that gives them their name.

Teen gamers quickly pass of Nintendo as a "Kiddie-Company". Sure, Pikachu may be cute, but the games are enjoyable for ALL ages. Where's GTA on GCN...? Well, I personally believe that isn't a bad thing. A lot of people love GTA and I'm not going to preach, but it is a crude way to enjoy videogaming. Games should be fun based on what they do for entertainment, not how realistic the blood is. For what its worth, StarFox was an AWESOME shooter, and is worth buying for any shooter fan, even though it may not be a Halo 2.

Some people give Nintendo their back for not going online. Yes, this was a HUGE mistake on their part, but one Reggie Fils-Aime openly states. He's already confirmed WiFi built on the Revolution, and the DS has its online capabilities being used in the near future. Nintendo is becoming more aware of the Online market, and I'd say they've learned their lesson in full.

Gamers have been disgusted by the lack of details Nintendo has released. If you are one of the those people: TOUGH! The Revolution is most definetly worth waiting for, and anyone who can't doesn't have enough self-control to do much of anything. The prize is always better after you've longed for it for a good while. Nintendo knows that, and is keeping the Revolution shrouded in tantalizing secrecy.

And for those of you who are Sony and Micro$oft fanboys and fangirls: give Nintendo a chance. Sure, the DS isn't up to the PSP graphics standards, but I'd gladly take it over that Sony Screw-up because of its inovative features, and I love the two screens. If I wanted a black GBA, I would've gotten a skin for mine. I didn't need Sony to redesign it with better graphics. Microsoft has its amazingly large [compared to the new PS2 and GCN] console which has a great online service. Sure, the games are great and everything, but [and this goes for the PS2 also] I miss my old franchises! Give me Mario/Pikachu/Samus/Fox/Link/etc over ANOTHER online Madden game ANYDAY!

Nintendo is by NO MEANS dead, and you just sound uneducated for saying so. Consider what you're talking about, and realize that Nintendo is still in the next-gen race 100%. Believe it.

[This was meant to be a very short comment. It turned into a huge topic on why I love Nintendo [and Sony and Microsoft too, just not as much.] and why its not dead, as opposed to many people dismissing it as a gaming company that kicked the bucket. Have a little faith.]*

*That section made more sense in the comment form at 1up ^_^

~Pok?Jungle

0.o;; I agree with Pok?Jungle. I saw this at 1up awhile ago, and, whaddya know...it was still there xD