The Dark Knight Rises

[Kenshin5]

I thought she was lesbian for the first half of the movie until her 'girlfriend' dropped off the face of the Earth (or at least Gotham) in the second half. Then Hathaway had the biggest character change in record time, which was about ten minutes. I didn't like that she didn't get enough screen time, nor did they actually call her catwoman - that would feel out of place but it's not very important - because she was an interesting character, who had decent chemistry with Christian Bale.

I probably missed something, but (major spoilers here):

Spoiler:

So why the hell did Bane work for Daggett? I get that Daggett used Bane for the stock market crash and to make Bruce Wayne broke, which would eliminate his competition. That's fine. Then we discover that Bane worked for Daggett to access Wayne's Applied Sciences Laboratories. He broke in by blowing up the floor from under it, because he built directly under the facility, so why the hell did he even work for Daggett? Forgive me if I completely missed something, because I cannot understand what he was saying half the time, so it was a bit distracting.

Oh, and Bane's death was so anti-climatic. He got shot and boom, he's dead. Kinda mellow for a guy that is the title villain for the movie. They just left him to die.

Not sure if someone already mentioned this, but this movie felt more like the typical super-hero movie in the way it was told, more so than its predecessors anyway. In any case, I thought the ending wrapped everything up, no matter how cheesy it was.

The Robin thing was cool. I would love to see something like Batman Beyond.

Spoiler:

I thought its cause he was really working with Talia. And he wanted to force Bruce to give Talia the energy device and embed his trust in her so he used Daggett as a catalyst for that. Remember he said something like "Why am I not the owner of Wayne Enterprises" or something to that extent. And Bane says something like "You never were intended to be". So it seems like they planned tricking Bruce into trusting the Miranda front from the beginning.

 

[Mr Cat Dog]

Ehhhhh, I don't think my thoughts are quite as negative as Ayselipera's, but I was kinda disappointed in the film, to be honest.

Let's start with a positive, though: I really, really liked Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle. Every time she was on screen, the film seemed to have had new life breathed into it. She was sexy without being objectified (for the most part), witty without being written as cartoonish, and seemed a natural fit into this crazy universe... unlike Bane, unfortunately, whose motivations were never really made clear and whose voice just served as a constant distraction (I read a review that likened it to a 'pompous magician' and that just seems so apt in retrospect). Compared to the magnificence of Heath Ledger's Joker, Tom Hardy could never really live up to that, especially with most of his face behind that damn mask. Marion Cotillard's character also felt very poorly-integrated (although it was funny that her 'reveal' was spoilered months and months ago... I even remember talking about it in the old thread!). As well as this, while it didn't drag as much as TDK did, its plotting was very all-over-the-place. Especially in the beginning. And the point Scarf made earlier about the score is dead-on. By the time we got to the whole Batman-in-prison melodrama, I couldn't stop laughing each time the inmates started chanting that leitmotif over and over again. You're better than that, Hans Zimmer! And ugh that ending. After spending 160 minutes avoiding the word 'Catwoman', Robin gets blurted out of nowhere and we get an Italian vacation and a complete tonal shift from everything that came before.

It wasn't all bad, though. I still like the film, but I don't love it in any way. Joseph Gordon-Levitt's character was very well-integrated, and he was probably my favourite character apart from Selina. And it looked as pretty as any of the other films in the trilogy. Seeing it IMAX was definitely worth the extra money paid for the ticket. The set-pieces were impressive as always, and the national anthem scene genuinely gave me chills when watching it.

Oh, and this article gave me a good chuckle. Only read it if you've seen the film, as it's very spoiler-heavy.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

My longest review of the film yet. I was thinking about it again. Warning: Spoilers!

It is the worst of the three. In my eyes, from best to worst, it is: TDK > BB > TDKR. With that said, it is still a really good film. How many "part three"s are actually good? Not many. So, it isn't as good as the others, but it isn't bad either. Best super hero movie I've seen this year.

My main complaints:

1) The editing. Nolan films are expertly edited. This one was not. The cuts were too quick, there were few establishing shots, it felt clunky... it seemed like plot points were dropped or not fully explored. Little consideration to continuity and the passage of time - it was not conveyed very well. Overall, very little breathing room in what amount to a near-constant barrage of dialogue.

But, I forgive them. Why? The film was 2h45min long. Why is this significant? Well, that's the maximum time a IMAX film (shot on film. And not digital) can be. Nolan edits while writing the script, he does not really edit on film. He shoots what he intends to use. And from reports and behind-the-scenes recordings and pictures from the numerous extras on this films there absolutely was stuff written and shot that was not used in the final film. I am positive that the true film is at least 3 hours in length. Hopefully we see the full cut on the Blu-ray release - like Cameron eventually did with Avatar. I hate that film, but it is a good example as Cameron also said he had to edit it down for IMAX (why the hell was that computer generated spectacle film and not digital though? O_o)

2) The sound. First of all the absolutely horrible score. Zimmer can be terrific (The Lion King) and I love the scores of the first two films. But this was a bad score. Plain and bland. Lots of score reuse. New motifs were nothing memorable. It was just... generic Zimmer noise. The absence of Howard's involvement in the score this time (he co-wrote the first two scores) was very evident.

Also the sound mixing. The music was too loud. Way too loud. It was overbearing at times. It drowned out key dialogue. My dad didn't catch the "Robin" bit. He heard "Robert" and didn't get the reference they were so blatantly dropping.

3) This was very non-Nolan feeling film. I knew going in that it would be more of a disaster film, Nolan said as much. He was aiming for that. He wanted a huge scope (like the giganticly epic cinemascope films of yesteryear). This was Nolan's very well made Transformers-like flik. However, I wanted Nolan...ness. Where's the light crime drama? The noire? Broken flow of time? It didn't play with my mind. Worst of all, it was cliche at times. It was the most "superhero" or "comic book" feeling film of the three - and I wouldn't even consider the first two to be in those categories at all.

Also, I think WB got involved this time. Maybe they didn't want more complaints from confused moviegoers like they got for Inception (which was not confusing, but whatever) or The Dark Knight (apparently, people got confused at why Batman rescued Harvey Dent when he said he was going to get Rachael. They couldn't comprehend that the Joker might *gasp* lie). Of the three movies, this was the most basic in story and, more importantly, dialogue. It was rich. Everything was spelled out in plain language. You didn't have to think about anything. Also, the forced dropped in clips from Batman Begins. That does not seem like Nolan. He always treats his audience like they're intelligent. Why force feed us the clips of what the film is referencing? We should be able to decipher the reference on our own. Lastly... the ending. Nolan and Bale said Robin would not be in the franchise. And poof, here he was at the end. Blake was a great character and no reason he can't take up the Batman mantle in the end, but why reveal that his name is actually Robin at the end? Makes no sense. If he is now Batman, why is his name Robin? And the cafe scene at the end? It should have ended with Alfred smiling, we did not need to see Bale.

People have complained about Bane and that he's "no Joker". Well, neither was Ra's or Scarecrow in the first movie. Two-Face isn't Joker either. But they were all good villains in their own way. I quite enjoyed Bane (and his voice). My biggest complain on Bane is that he lost his backstory to "Miranda" at the end - so who the heck is he really, then? On Miranda... may the surprise would have been a surprise if she wasn't dressed like she was clearly not from Gotham at all.

 

[Eruption]

Finally got to watch it today and didn't have the ending spoiled beforehand somehow.

Anyway, my opinions.

Spoiler:

Going in I expected this to be a disappointment compared to The Dark Knight because the villains just weren't as dark in my eyes. This was my eventual opinion after watching it as well, but I believe it still narrowly beats Batman Begins.

I liked the hints toward the Blake Robin story throughout the film and that would've been fine if Bruce was dead, but then the entire film just went down a lot in my opinion with the scene of Alfred seeing him in the restaurant.

Bane surprised me as a villain, he was actually menacing and portrayed darker than in the terrible Schumacher films so I guess Nolan did a good job there. Catwoman was also surprisingly a good addition and Anne Hathaway delivered a good potrayal I wasn't expecting.

Overall I'd say I'd rate the films -
Begins 8/10
The Dark Knight 9.5/10
The Dark Knight Rises 8.5/10

A great film but it was never going to live up to its predecessor.

If someone is going to pick this up now Nolan has left, they need to give Scarecrow the most prominent role and take some inspiration from the Arkham Asylum game.

EDIT: After reading the above posts, I have to agree with the part about not understanding Bane some of the time. I think the amount of voice change used was just unnecessary. I love that fifty questions article too.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Overall I'd say I'd rate the films -
Begins 8/10
The Dark Knight 9.5/10
The Dark Knight Rises 8.5/10

A great film but it was never going to live up to its predecessor.[

If someone is going to pick this up now Nolan has left, they need to give Scarecrow the most prominent role and take some inspiration from the Arkham Asylum game.

I'd say...

Batman Begins = 9/10
The Dark Knight = 10/10
The Dark Knight Rises = 8.5/10

And yeah... I think the same thing about the future instalments. I think they should get Paul Dini involved. Between the animated series, his contributions to the comic universe, and the Arkham games he knows the character inside and out. He can stay true to the comics and be dark. He worked on Batman Beyond too. Maybe they'll go that way with Blake?

 

[Zubat]

Can't believe Nolan lazed out making DKR last. It's like he was getting sick of Batman

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Can't believe Nolan lazed out making DKR last. It's like he was getting sick of Batman

What do you mean?

Did you want him to make TDKR first or something?

 

[Livewire]

Can't believe Nolan lazed out making DKR last. It's like he was getting sick of Batman

You can't make the last movie chronologically, first or second. XD

 

[Nihilego]

I'm gonna put my neck on the line here, especially since Livewire is in this thread, and say that I really didn't think very much of this film. It had its great moments obviously but for me everything got watered down by weird ideas which just didn't work and horrible plot holes. Here are fifty of them. Sure, a huge number of those are just overly picky or outright dumb, but it doesn't change the number of them that are in fact genuine. I was particularly bothered by Bane not blowing up Gotham when people left it, the horrible five month timeframe and the one city bridge which Bane left, among others.

Further to that, I feel a lot of things were left at loose ends or not explained very well:
• what is the "cleanslate" and why does Bruce have it?
• what happened to Alfred after his argument with Bruce?
• what was going on in the opening scene?
• what's up with Bane's face?
• why did Bane, such a dominating and important character, have such a weak exit?
• who even was Miranda Tate?
• why was the flying bat tank THING so irrelevant until towards the end, despite the big deal made over it?
• why won't they stop talking about orphans?

I could go on but I'm not going to lol. I tried to enjoy the film but... these just stuck out at me far too much for me to be able to.

edit: anne hathaway is hot. i think she pulled off the part well but... the part itself was really unnecessary and pretty tacky imo.

 

[Overlord Drakow]

I'll try answer a few questions.


• what was going on in the opening scene? This is where Bane kidnaps the nuclear physicist dude who is eventually revealed in the football scene and then murdered.


• what's up with Bane's face? His face is ****ed hardcore. You really don't want to know the details on this one, it's just too gruesome.


• why did Bane, such a dominating and important character, have such a weak exit? Realism. All of these overly dramatic deaths are so cliche to me. In reality, even someone as overpowered as me can die in such a lame way.

• who even was Miranda Tate? Bane's sister I think. I admit this had me stumped for a bit, but yeah I'm pretty sure she's Bane's sister who initially escaped the pit of hell.

• why was the flying bat tank THING so irrelevant until towards the end, despite the big deal made over it? It played some roles throughout the film, but yeah I suppose it really stood out towards the end. I think you are over-exaggerating here though.


• why won't they stop talking about orphans? It's one of the main concepts the film was focusing on. You have Batman and soon to be Robin who were both orphans, but then you also have Bane and Miranda Tate who too are essentially orphans in the depths of hell.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I'm gonna put my neck on the line here, especially since Livewire is in this thread, and say that I really didn't think very much of this film. It had its great moments obviously but for me everything got watered down by weird ideas which just didn't work and horrible plot holes. Here are fifty of them. Sure, a huge number of those are just overly picky or outright dumb, but it doesn't change the number of them that are in fact genuine. I was particularly bothered by Bane not blowing up Gotham when people left it, the horrible five month timeframe and the one city bridge which Bane left, among others.

Further to that, I feel a lot of things were left at loose ends or not explained very well:
• what is the "cleanslate" and why does Bruce have it?
• what happened to Alfred after his argument with Bruce?
• what was going on in the opening scene?
• what's up with Bane's face?
• why did Bane, such a dominating and important character, have such a weak exit?
• who even was Miranda Tate?
• why was the flying bat tank THING so irrelevant until towards the end, despite the big deal made over it?
• why won't they stop talking about orphans?

I could go on but I'm not going to lol. I tried to enjoy the film but... these just stuck out at me far too much for me to be able to.

edit: anne hathaway is hot. i think she pulled off the part well but... the part itself was really unnecessary and pretty tacky imo.

The "cleanslate" isn't an item. That's what Selina was promised, yes. But that isn't what Bruce offered her. The ending was the cleanslate. They've run off. They're free of their pasts. They have their clean slate.

And...Alfred leaving? Why does it matter where he went? Maybe he went to Detroid. Heck, maybe he went to Metropolis. What's the difference. He told Bruce that he'd leave, and he was true to his word.

The other stuff was summed up reasonably by Drakow. But...

• who even was Miranda Tate? Bane's sister I think. I admit this had me stumped for a bit, but yeah I'm pretty sure she's Bane's sister who initially escaped the pit of hell.

No, not quite. Miranda is really Talia, Ra's' daughter. Bane is given a origin derived from the comics, but then some stuff is thrown in alluding that he is Ra's' son. He is not. At the end, Miranda's identity is revealed and absorbs the entire backstory attributed to Bane earlier in the film. They aren't siblings, but Bane is part of the League of Shadows. ...which begs the question, who the hell was Bane? He lost his identity at the end the movie :| Best I could gather, Bane was a friend or some kind of guardian