The Kalos League Speculation Thread

[Hikamaru]

*sighs*

Well guys, we're nearly there. Thursday will be a big day for Pokemon fans with Sun & Moon game footage to be showcased at Gamescon, but also the fate of the Kalos League... will Ash finally win his first league of an official in-game region?

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

*sighs*

Well guys, we're nearly there. Thursday will be a big day for Pokemon fans with Sun & Moon game footage to be showcased at Gamescon, but also the fate of the Kalos League... will Ash finally win his first league of an official in-game region?

Regardless of whether he wins the League or gets runner up, the one thing that CAN'T be denied is that Ash has MORE than redeemed himself for Unova either way, since he's beaten his record in Sinnoh.

Let's see what happens. The mention of victory in the title would imply Ash won, but then again, we also had an episode that indicated Ash and Serena entered a date, when it was nothing like that at all, so let's wait and see.

 

[Famon]

Lets see,

Ash wins ---

1) The whole Internet is overjoyed with Ash victory .

2) Many post and meme will be made to congratulate Ash's victory.

3) People will get hyped about Team Flare arc.

4) Fans will be more excited to watch "Pokemon Sun & Moon" anime since it has a brand new quest that has nothing to do with Gym or Badges.

Alain Wins ---

1) The Entire Internet gets filled with rants! Nobody will be happy.

2) It will be proven that Writers does favor New Character over Ash .

3) Many Fans might lose interest in Team Flare arc! In fact , They might not see any episode with Alain and his stinking Charizard.

4) People lose interest in Pokemon Sun and Moon Anime.

5) The Game sales might get affect by it .

6) Letting Alain win is same as Dooming the Anime.

Atleast , Takeshi Shudo and his team had a gut to make Ash lose despite he being their creation. Unlike Atoshiro Tomioka and his team who does not has a gut to see their precious Alain losing to another trainer.

After all , Only one trainer beaten Alain in a On-screen battle and he was a E4 member. Alain never lose anyone ordinary.
Even Now , Writers using "Special Greninja" for Alain to lose.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Lets see,

Ash wins ---

1) The whole Internet is overjoyed with Ash victory .

2) Many post and meme will be made to congratulate Ash's victory.

3) People will get hyped about Team Flare arc.

4) Fans will be more excited to watch "Pokemon Sun & Moon" anime since it has a brand new quest that has nothing to do with Gym or Badges.

Alain Wins ---

1) The Entire Internet gets filled with rants! Nobody will be happy.

2) It will be proven that Writers does favor New Character over Ash .

3) Many Fans might lose interest in Team Flare arc! In fact , They might not see any episode with Alain and his stinking Charizard.

4) People lose interest in Pokemon Sun and Moon Anime.

5) The Game sales might get affect by it .

6) Letting Alain win is same as Dooming the Anime.

Atleast , Takeshi Shudo and his team had a gut to make Ash lose despite he being their creation. Unlike Atoshiro Tomioka and his team who does not has a gut to see their precious Alain losing to another trainer.

After all , Only one trainer beaten Alain in a On-screen battle and he was a E4 member. Alain never lose anyone ordinary.
Even Now , Writers using "Special Greninja" for Alain to lose.

In all fairness, Ash losing still is better than in Unova, considering that he at least managed to do much better than before, whether it be Unova or, heck, even Sinnoh.

Besides, considering how there were intensely low ratings for the Kalos league (in fact, its opener was so low in ratings it apparently tied with the Tepig evolution episode as the lowest rated episode, which is low ESPECIALLY for a league opener), I wouldn't be surprised if most people end up missing Ash's victory either way.

 

[Perriechu]

Alain Wins ---

1) The Entire Internet gets filled with rants! Nobody will be happy.

2) It will be proven that Writers does favor New Character over Ash .

3) Many Fans might lose interest in Team Flare arc! In fact , They might not see any episode with Alain and his stinking Charizard.

4) People lose interest in Pokemon Sun and Moon Anime.

5) The Game sales might get affect by it .

6) Letting Alain win is same as Dooming the Anime.

These are ridiculous statements lol.

First point, no one cares that much to get that angry over something that is completely trivial. If he doesn't win, sure I'll be pissed, but I'll get over it lmao. No one is gonna be unhappy or rant.

Second point, Alain's characterization is leading up to something bigger. He's an experienced trainer, more so than Ash, he isn't going to be a pushover. He's not a favourite, he's a prop to introduce Team Flare and to make Lysandre appear as a protagonist.

Third point, I doubt it. Promos exist for a reason. The second part of Ash vs Alain is gonna feature a teaser for the Team Flare arc and then promos pick up the slack.

Fourth point, also doubtful. What will attract people to the Sun/Moon anime is the games.

Fifth point, perhaps your most ridiculous point lol. The games aren't going to suffer from the anime. XY/ORAS remain the first and third best selling 3DS games respectively and DP are the fourth best selling NDS games, so. That point is invalid.

Six point, no it's not.

 

[Blaster1]

I really believe that Ash will win the League this time... I would have preferred Kanto but this is also not bad.

Ash never won a battle against Alain to make him win this time.

This League would have been much better if it weren't rushed though.

 

[Perriechu]

I really believe that Ash will win the League this time... I would have preferred Kanto but this is also not bad.

Ash never won a battle against Alain to make him win this time.

This League would have been much better if it weren't rushed though.

Yeah I thought that too, not letting Ash win against Alain so he can finally have his win at the league. But I also have another thought in that he'll lose, but then when the Team Flare arc kicks off Alain will battle Lysandre and lose, leaving it up to Ash who wins. So Ash technically gets to be better than Alain but not good enough directly battling him, thus giving him the "I'm gonna get stronger and rebattle you one day" mentality. Which is something I can see them doing. What's really exciting though is how the predictability the writers normally have with the league has been taken away, it's exciting again.

and yeah, the league this time has been severely rushed. I guess it just shows that the real focus of the season was Zygarde/Team Flare. The league is just a prop which is interesting but a wrong move IMO.

 

[Blaster1]

Yeah I thought that too, not letting Ash win against Alain so he can finally have his win at the league. But I also have another thought in that he'll lose, but then when the Team Flare arc kicks off Alain will battle Lysandre and lose, leaving it up to Ash who wins. So Ash technically gets to be better than Alain but not good enough directly battling him, thus giving him the "I'm gonna get stronger and rebattle you one day" mentality. Which is something I can see them doing. What's really exciting though is how the predictability the writers normally have with the league has been taken away, it's exciting again.

and yeah, the league this time has been severely rushed. I guess it just shows that the real focus of the season was Zygarde/Team Flare. The league is just a prop which is interesting but a wrong move IMO.

Another thing I think could happen is Ash losing against Alain and than having another battle against each other when Team Flair attacks, with Alain helping the evil Team.

I think one of the reasons why this League is rushed is because of the Sun and Moon games and, if he wins, maybe to have time to make Ash battle the Elite Four.

 

[Famon]

These are ridiculous statements lol.

First point, no one cares that much to get that angry over something that is completely trivial. If he doesn't win, sure I'll be pissed, but I'll get over it lmao. No one is gonna be unhappy or rant.

Second point, Alain's characterization is leading up to something bigger. He's an experienced trainer, more so than Ash, he isn't going to be a pushover. He's not a favourite, he's a prop to introduce Team Flare and to make Lysandre appear as a protagonist.

Third point, I doubt it. Promos exist for a reason. The second part of Ash vs Alain is gonna feature a teaser for the Team Flare arc and then promos pick up the slack.

Fourth point, also doubtful. What will attract people to the Sun/Moon anime is the games.

Fifth point, perhaps your most ridiculous point lol. The games aren't going to suffer from the anime. XY/ORAS remain the first and third best selling 3DS games respectively and DP are the fourth best selling NDS games, so. That point is invalid.

Six point, no it's not.

Actually , They will considering the amount of hype this episode getting for Ash's chance of winning .

Alain charization leading to what ?
Team Flare destroying the world , That A person has to be Jerk to become stronger , That Ash can not win the league because he always has bunch of sidekicks following him and he does not dump them like Alain did with Manon
From Flashback , Its pretty sure that Alain started his journey 6 or 7 month before Ash came to Kalos.
While Ash trained for 5 year (without aging) and even goes though Orange League and Battle Frontier which suppose to make his stronger.
While Alain just battled 9 random trainer and he reached Elite 4 level! Alain gets everything for free just because writers favorite.

 

[Lizardo]

Amazing, even with all of the reason in the world to win and all the momentum behind him, Satoshi still somehow loses. For what? We don't even have the traditional League format next game, so why not send him out of Kalos with a win? I don't care about the Champion's League or a final battle with Carne, I just wanted to see him succeed for once.

And losing to Alan, who had zero reason to win the League whatsoever? Who stormed his way through the League with two Pokémon? Who already defeated Satoshi twice (since when does Satoshi lose to a rival in the final battle)? Fuck this. It turns out Famon was right after all, Alan is the writers' favorite. He got the battle he wanted with Satoshi, the Mega Evolution energy he needs to save Hari-san, and the opportunity to win a League he never actually cared about.

I'd comment on the quality of the battle itself, but frankly this ending is way too disappointing to even judge it. It's clear now that Satoshi really will never win a League.

 

[Hikamaru]

ASH LOST HE FUCKING LOST

Seriously writers, Famon knew you had favoritism towards Alain and it has been proven. It has been 20 years and with a new region that has no traditional Gyms, there was literally no reason why they chose to have Alain win the title. But it does at least confirm that the curse of Ash never winning a main region's league will continue for all eternity.

Oh well, I guess this means Kalos is now the worst league in Pokemon history because it was the biggest failed promise.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Well, at least he did better than in Unova, and got a far better ranking than in Sinnoh.

Still, somewhat disappointing. Though I doubt it would have meant much even if he won since the Sawyer battle didn't even make the Top 10. They're DEFINITELY going to need to bring Misty back for Kalos to make up for this.

Besides, I wasn't too surprised by the outcome. This was the same series that had an episode title that falsely claimed Ash and Serena went onto an actual date. Did you REALLY think that just because the episode title mentioned a victory, they would actually have Ash win? I wonder what CoroCoro has to say today, though...

 

[Lizardo]

It's not just the title.

What sold me more on the idea of Satoshi winning was that Alan had already defeated him twice before, effectively setting him up as the rival to beat this series. Convention usually dictates that this means Satoshi wins the final battle, the one that counts, as he did with Shinji in the Sinnoh League. Otherwise, there's no point to having Satoshi lose before.

But instead, Alan wins. And there's no real rationale behind Alan winning, either, no specific reason that he had to. Alan already got what he wanted out of this battle just by having it. He never viewed it as being about becoming "the strongest", and he would have gotten the Mega Evolution energy either way. There's no lesson in this, nor is there anything it adds to the story. Alan just wins because of some bull**** mandate that Satoshi isn't allowed to succeed in the end, even when he has every reason to.

Satoshi in this series got a lot of flack for being "glorified", but it's nothing compared to what goes on with Alan. And this League is proof of that.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

It's not just the title.

What sold me more on the idea of Satoshi winning was that Alan had already defeated him twice before, effectively setting him up as the rival to beat this series. Convention usually dictates that this means Satoshi wins the final battle, the one that counts, as he did with Shinji in the Sinnoh League. Otherwise, there's no point to having Satoshi lose before.

But instead, Alan wins. And there's no real rationale behind Alan winning, either, no specific reason that he had to. Alan already got what he wanted out of this battle just by having it. He never viewed it as being about becoming "the strongest", and he would have gotten the Mega Evolution energy either way. There's no lesson in this, nor is there anything it adds to the story. Alan just wins because of some bull**** mandate that Satoshi isn't allowed to succeed in the end, even when he has every reason to.

Satoshi in this series got a lot of flack for being "glorified", but it's nothing compared to what goes on with Alan. And this League is proof of that.

Yeah, and what's worse is that, thanks to several change ups with Sun and Moon's gameplay, it's unlikely Ash will EVER challenge a league until... what? Generation VIII? And that's even assuming the Anime even LASTS long enough to even grasp at that region. That means we have literally NO chance for Ash to even make up for the loss by competing in Alola since Alola doesn't even HAVE a League. I know I and other fans of my camp have said this before, but at this point, Misty may actually BE our only chance at fixing things now. XY's ratings are already down in the tubes anyways (In fact, the Kalos League is unprecedented as being the league with the lowest rating turnout, with only two league episodes AFAIK even reaching the top 10, and only one of those being firmly within the top 10), so the writers had absolutely nothing to lose by having Ash win.

 

[jombii]

Oh well, I guess this means Kalos is now the worst league in Pokemon history because it was the biggest failed promise.

Uhm no. Unova League was way worst. While we both do not really like what happened today, Ash being defeated by Cameron was utter BS. And it's not even in the finals yet. And not even by a special Pokemon. Lucario just evolved mid-battle, that's all.

Also, what's with Misty?

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Uhm no. Unova League was way worst. While we both do not really like what happened today, Ash being defeated by Cameron was utter BS. And it's not even in the finals yet. And not even by a special Pokemon. Lucario just evolved mid-battle, that's all.

Also, what's with Misty?

Lots of us wanted Misty to be brought back after she was essentially thrown under the bus by the writers after Johto. And even after they improved the departures of the various characters after her so that they at least left of their own volition, either to pursue their own goals or, in the case of Brock, changing their goals willingly, they still haven't redeemed themselves of their shabby treatment of Misty (for goodness sakes, they blew off a potential goldmine in Best Wishes regarding not only having her return, but actually granting her closure by skipping the Pokémon World Conference, and to add insult to injury, they actually wasted a cameo on Dawn despite the fact that she had no real business or connection to the Unova region at all). And considering it's going to be the 20th Anniversary next year, there's no excuse for Misty NOT returning by that point. She's our one shot at this point for making the anime great again, especially now when, thanks to gameplay changes, we can't even hope for Ash to even challenge a league again, let alone attempt to claim the title until Generation VIII at the earliest because of Alola not even having Gym Leaders or especially a Pokémon League at all.

And I agree, it's definitely not as bad as in Unova. But it was still as cheap of a loss as in Sinnoh. I'd even argue that Alain's, while not as bad as Cameron, was worse than Tobias. At least Tobias, despite being last minute, didn't fight Ash beforehand multiple times and beat him every time up to the league.

 

[jombii]

-

I see. Well, Misty was undeniably one of the better companions for Ash. Let's see what happens.

Also, I agree with you that Alain's win is cheaper than Tobias. I get that Tobias was too OP because he had legendaries on his team. However, it was logical for Ash to lose since he was battling against legendary pokemons.

Ash had the type advantage now and, with the writers hyping up Ash-Greninja as something greater than Mega Evolution, Alain's win was only very illogical.

 

[Drake22ice]

So disappointing that Satoshi lost. You would think that the main character's story line would play out like in a video game, where you try and start over sometimes, but eventually win and succeed, so that there will be a new adventure for him to try and eventually succeed again.. But nope... At this point if the show doesn't cancel, I hope they start with all new characters and writing, because Satoshi's character's story is just pathetic and sad now.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I see. Well, Misty was undeniably one of the better companions for Ash. Let's see what happens.

Also, I agree with you that Alain's win is cheaper than Tobias. I get that Tobias was too OP because he had legendaries on his team. However, it was logical for Ash to lose since he was battling against legendary pokemons.

Ash had the type advantage now and, with the writers hyping up Ash-Greninja as something greater than Mega Evolution, Alain's win was only very illogical.

Well, I don't know about logical in terms of Tobias and legendaries: Pikachu managed to OHKO a Regice back in Battle Frontier, even if it WAS freshly caught by Brandon, so logically, if Ash could handle a Regice, he most certainly can handle a Darkrai and Latios. But yeah.

So disappointing that Satoshi lost. You would think that the main character's story line would play out like in a video game, where you try and start over sometimes, but eventually win and succeed, so that there will be a new adventure for him to try and eventually succeed again.. But nope... At this point if the show doesn't cancel, I hope they start with all new characters and writing, because Satoshi's character's story is just pathetic and sad now.

No kidding. They had the perfect opportunity to end the series under the standpoint of Ash winning a league = Anime ends way back in the Orange Islands, probably the closest he's ever gotten to actually WINNING a League. And now they just ruined a potential win for Ash, simply because of an unwritten rule that never even made sense in the first place due to it being contradicted very early on in the series. The only solace we can get is that Ash at least did a LOT better than Unova, and that he managed to do better than Sinnoh. And what's even worse is that, thanks to major shake ups in gameplay for Sun and Moon, we can't even hope for Ash to try again for Alola since Alola doesn't even HAVE a Pokémon League.

 

[Hikamaru]

I personally rank the leagues now from best to worst:

1. Sinnoh
2. Hoenn
3. Johto
4. Kanto
5. Kalos
6. Unova

Reasons why - Sinnoh was the best in my opinion because, ignoring the cheap loss to Tobias I felt Ash really did well in this league, such as using interesting tactics against Nando, Conway and Paul. The latter was arguably one of my fave battles in the series, and as for Tobias it was awesome Ash became the only trainer to ever defeat that Darkrai, but legendaries are treated OP in the anime so the loss wasn't surprising.


Hoenn was good as well, especially Ash vs Katie due to the latter often switching in response to type matchups and also kinda acknowledging EV training in the anime as she mentioned with her Walrein. Johto had Ash overcoming Gary in an intense battle, and losing to Harrison made sense considering he used Pokemon Ash was unfamiliar with at the time.


Kanto is where the "bad" leagues are for me, since Charizard sleeping was a very stupid way to lose. Unova is still the worst of all due to that doofus Cameron, who didn't have a full team, and had his ace Pokemon evolve in a Deus Ex Machina manner to cause arguably the worst league loss in recent history. Alain destroying Ash so easily is now what I rank just as bad as Cameron, and I blame it on Alain's proven-to-be-indestructible Mega Charizard X. The episode title was also very misleading, as if XY hadn't had a failed promise already with the Ash-Serena date episode (aka the one that aired before Serena's haircut moment) and that's why XY got knocked down a peg further to me - it was full of failed promises that not even good animation was able to save.