Typing Balance

[PumpJack]

First off, I'd just like to let you folks know that I'm not a huge competitive battler.

But I've been with the series since it first started, and sometimes I feel like some of the types simply got shafted, and some type combos just simply end up being so terrible that otherwise great Pokémon are rendered practically unusable.

So, I ask you this.

Are you happy with the type matchups? If not, what changes would you like to make?


I ask from both gameplay (well- mainly gameplay) and a logical perspective.

 

[Nah]

Bug type needs some love. It's resisted by 7 types, far more than any other type in the game, and what it's super-effective against is already covered by more commonly used/possibly better types (Dark is covered by Fighting, Psychic by Dark, and Grass by Fire).

On the other hand, I never understood why Rock doesn't resist Electric or Bug, or why Bug isn't weak to Ice.

Also, Steel should regain it's resistance to Ghost. Ghost is ridiculous now.

 

[Megan]

Every time I see someone using a Grass move against an Ice type Pokemon, I just think: "Oh well, luckily it resists that. Nevermind, Ice only resists itself."

While GF tried to fix type resistances in Gen 6, I think they not only overlooked Ice types, but also made it worse by adding a defensive Ice type Pokemon. It has so many weaknesses and only one resistance, which it can't even use as an advantage, because most Ice attacks are special and its Special Defence just sucks. So much wasted potential...

 

[Hiatus]

Some Pokémon types have more resistance and immunity against others and some have less, which accordingly leads them to gaining either an advantage or disadvantage. This, from a glance, doesn't exactly seem too balanced. Though, when you go in-depth, it winds up to be sort of a different story.

There are indeed certain types out there that have more resistances than normal (one example would be steel, which is not very effective to a total of ten types, including normal, grass, ice, psychic, flying, and more; another is dragon, which isn't too effective against water, grass, fire, and other types of the like, which are quite common whether it be in-game or competitive), but one thing that makes up for it is the lack of Pokémon amount these groups hold. Even if certain Pokémon are categorized here, they're bound to have another type with them, which, in the end, reduces the number of resistance and immunity they might possibly carry.

I suppose they sort of do pay attention to these kind of detail when introducing new Pokémon (even if it might not seem as such), so that things remain balanced as much as possible.

 

[Bellsprout]

imo ice is currently the most shafted type. When it comes to resisting they only resist themselves which makes little sense to me. I find most of them on top of that to be pretty frail in the defensive stats (mainly defense). So it's like a double blow. Not to mention they are weak to very commonly used types... these types primarily having high attack stats. Also offensively there are some physical ice types I really love, but sadly there are few physical ice type moves and they either have low to semi decent power with some other kind of draw back to the move or not a 100% accuracy.

 

[Cerberus87]

Problem is that Ice is great offensively but there's no incentive to using Ice STAB. Water types can learn Ice moves and have better resistances.

However, there was a time when, for a Water-type, being part Ice was a blessing, since there were few Rock and Fighting moves.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

The three elemental types (Fire, Electric, and Ice) and Rock types are the only ones screwed over. Their moves are some of the best moves, but the Pokemon associated with those types are low tiers (for the most part) due to either poor stats, poor move pools, or both. What they have in common is being weak to the most common types - Ground and Water - and the most common moves - Fighting and Rock - in the metagame. So far, Fire types suffer the least of the four in Gen VI with the nerf of Stealth Rocks and Dragon types, who once outclassed them for also learning Fire moves, followed by Electric types, who no longer get paralyzed and its new members learning Grass Knot for Ground coverage.

 

[Nah]

Stealth Rock....wasn't nerfed in Gen 6, though I wish it was. If you mean how Defog suddenly became a viable move, I wouldn't really call that a nerf; SR is still going strong like it has been since it was introduced despite Defog being a thing now.

Though I do agree that Ice has gotten the short stick for a while now.

 

[Hiatus]

In terms of mechanics, has Defog undergone any change, if at all?

I've seen it being used pretty heavily few months back, but now, its usage seemed to have dropped a little. Maybe it could just be me seeing things.

 

[Harmonious Fusion]

At least pre-Gen VI, Bug/Poison was an utterly terrible type combination. Aside from so many Pokemon of that typing being too weak to bother with and/or getting shallow movepools, neither Bug nor Poison by themselves were the most efficient types in sole terms of coverage. Bug was good against Psychic and Dark, sure, but Dark, Ghost, and Fighting were all much more popular types for those roles. And why use Poison to kill Grass when Ice and Fire are so much more satisfying, and have more roles to play? I always found myself regretting using Bug/Poison Pokemon because of some combination of those factors.

I don't know whether the introduction of Fairy has changed anything, though, or to what degree.

 

[Oryx]

Every time I see someone using a Grass move against an Ice type Pokemon, I just think: "Oh well, luckily it resists that. Nevermind, Ice only resists itself."

While GF tried to fix type resistances in Gen 6, I think they not only overlooked Ice types, but also made it worse by adding a defensive Ice type Pokemon. It has so many weaknesses and only one resistance, which it can't even use as an advantage, because most Ice attacks are special and its Special Defence just sucks. So much wasted potential...

So do you think ice types just can't be defensive at all, or that they can work as defenders as long as their defense is against special attacks?

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Stealth Rock....wasn't nerfed in Gen 6, though I wish it was. If you mean how Defog suddenly became a viable move, I wouldn't really call that a nerf; SR is still going strong like it has been since it was introduced despite Defog being a thing now.

Well yeah, that's what I meant. Because of Defog's major buff this gen, Steath Rock is much easier to deal with so long as the Flying type who knows the move is your favorite, since that's what Johto E4 member Karen wants us to do.

 

[Cerberus87]

At least pre-Gen VI, Bug/Poison was an utterly terrible type combination. Aside from so many Pokemon of that typing being too weak to bother with and/or getting shallow movepools, neither Bug nor Poison by themselves were the most efficient types in sole terms of coverage. Bug was good against Psychic and Dark, sure, but Dark, Ghost, and Fighting were all much more popular types for those roles. And why use Poison to kill Grass when Ice and Fire are so much more satisfying, and have more roles to play? I always found myself regretting using Bug/Poison Pokemon because of some combination of those factors.

I don't know whether the introduction of Fairy has changed anything, though, or to what degree.

Bug/Poison had redundant coverage prior to 6th gen.

TBH with you the best Bug/Poison Pokémon is by far Scolipede, and she got a huge boost this gen because she has more Attack and a new ability that vastly improves her viability.

About Stealth Rock, I wish it was nerfed because Spikes are useless compared to it.

 

[Megan]

So do you think ice types just can't be defensive at all, or that they can work as defenders as long as their defense is against special attacks?

Ice types need a lot of team support to work as walls, because you need something that covers it's weaknesses (which Ice has a lot more than most other types). Making an Ice type wall work takes more effort than using another wall that outclasses it in many ways (typing, movepool, overall stats).

That's one of the reasons, why Regice (which is a special wall) doesn't get too much usage. Bad defensive typing+crappy movepool (no recovery move besides Rest), at least Avalugg has Recover, but that doesn't take his low SpD away.

I suppose it all comes down to a simple question: Is it possible for an Ice type Pokemon to exist, that is a wall and does its job great (something that's worth being in OU)?
Sadly that's a question I can't give you an answer for, because I'm terrible at Theorymoning...

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I suppose it all comes down to a simple question: Is it possible for an Ice type Pokemon to exist, that is a wall and does its job great (something that's worth being in OU)?
Sadly that's a question I can't give you an answer for, because I'm terrible at Theorymoning...

It's possible if an Ice type Pokemon has one of the dominant types in the OU metagame as its secondary type, like Steel for example. It worked for Fire types prior to Gen VI, which is why I wish there were more Pokemon in OU for diversity and less-redicule to low-tier Pokemon.

 

[Harmonious Fusion]

Bug/Poison had redundant coverage prior to 6th gen.

TBH with you the best Bug/Poison Pokémon is by far Scolipede, and she got a huge boost this gen because she has more Attack and a new ability that vastly improves her viability.

About Stealth Rock, I wish it was nerfed because Spikes are useless compared to it.

I did use a Scolipede for most of my White playthrough, and my impressions were essentially that he was a good, strong Pokemon, but he rarely got a chance to shine because my other team members had superior coverage.

 

[IceyGamer]

Fairy is too dang OP. I have to run Poison jab if I don't run my Metagross just to cover it which sucks.

 

[Dark Phantom Samurai]

Never understood how steel type is weak to fighting. If anything it should resist, after all what would happen if you kicked a solid steel gurrdurr? It doesnt make any sense. Fire and Ground are understandable to me but fighting makes little to no sense...

 

[Hiatus]

If you throw a punch or kick at some light form of metal, they will likely get bent, which does show that some of them don't exactly resist. Though, as far as heavier ones are concerned, it's sort of a different story. Pokémon that do have heavy metal attached to their body generally seem to have higher defenses (Metagross and Brongzong, for example), which allows them to withstand more attacks all together, whether it be fighting-type or not.

 

[Cerberus87]

If you throw a punch or kick at some light form of metal, they will likely get bent, which does show that some of them don't exactly resist. Though, as far as heavier ones are concerned, it's sort of a different story. Pokémon that do have heavy metal attached to their body generally seem to have higher defenses (Metagross and Brongzong, for example), which allows them to withstand more attacks all together, whether it be fighting-type or not.

Thin metal sheets are actually very easy to bend. Since Fighting-type Pokémon are way stronger than people, I imagine they can dent even thicker steel.

Metagross and Bronzong are Psychic-types, so they have added resistance to Fighting, but not because of their shields being stronger. Aggron is one of the heaviest and most defensively strong Steel-types, but is 4x weak to Fighting.