Aren't you that one drawing Conclusion ???
I didn't said Ash being Unbeatable !!! I said Ash should only lose to people like E4 , champion & Special trainer .
At this point, we seem to be going around in circles with this argument and I'm not going to waste my time dissecting that post and responding to everything line-by-line. If you're wedded to the idea of an overpowered Satoshi who only loses to the top echelon of trainers, then that's your preference. But it's incompatible with the kind of story the
Pocket Monsters stories are telling. You can throw out as many other shows as you want, but that's not going to change. And while it isn't always told very coherently, each
Pocket Monsters show does tell a story of Satoshi's journey to that region's League: complete with a beginning, a middle, and an end.
For someone who was talking in another thread about the roles a character is meant to play, you neglect that Satoshi plays the role of the "everyman" (see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyman). There's little, if anything, particularly unique about him as opposed to other characters within the show. He's only 'special' insofar as he's the protagonist that we follow. Atem was a magical spirit who was able to wield special powers that most people weren't, Satoshi is no different from the millions of other trainers who occupy his universe. Satoshi is not the only character who is capable of improving and growing stronger, and Satoshi is not the only character who has experience to draw on. He's only the one we follow. And that theme, that there are always people better than you, is central to what the anime franchise tells us. If you don't want to accept that and want to ignore the basic lesson coming out of the Battle Frontier (that he can't stop there, because that's not the end-all) then it's your problem, not the anime's.
Satoshi's primary opponents are Gym Leaders and other regular trainers, not Elite 4 members or champions. I would love to see an arc where he actually did get to face them, and I think it would be a fresh direction that he desperately needs, but that's not what the anime does. And as long as it's having Satoshi challenge Gym Leaders, he needs to be able to lose to them. It would not more interesting to present Satoshi as someone who could just breeze past them. It wouldn't even be believable, since he starts over with a new team of growing Pokémon in each series. It would be terrible writing. Satoshi should grow and improve, and that's honestly when the character is at his best.
For example - you say the decision to have Satoshi lose 6-2 to Shinji was a bad one, I disagree. It led to one of the few moments of character development Satoshi ever gets in the franchise, sets up their rematch in the Sinnoh League nicely, and makes for a nice turning point in their rivalry where they finally begin to respect each other. If anything the anime needs
more moments like that, not less. This is really where
Best Wishes fails with him. It's not that Satoshi was capable of losing, it's that he often lost to no purpose. That happens in each series, but Satoshi's losses to Shigeru and Shinji often had a point to them, whereas his defeats against Shooti not only made no sense, but didn't. But in any case, the problem isn't that Satoshi wasn't stupidly overpowered.
And by the way, Shinji is an antagonist and I'm really stunned that you could say otherwise. An antagonist opposes the protagonist (see here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antagonist) and stands in the way what he's trying to gain. As Satoshi's rival and, up until Takuto's appearance, the most prominent challenge standing in the way of Satoshi and becoming the Sinnoh League champion, Shinji very much does that.
As for what supposedly overpowered characters from whatever other anime you keep pulling out are popular, I have a question: who cares? Any group of people can like something, but it still doesn't make flaws in writing (assuming there are anything, I don't watch most of those shows) immune to criticism. Overpowering a character to the point where there's very little drama in the story is still a terrible decision to make, and really goes against basic storytelling.
And once again, 20 years has not passed within the anime's timeline. It makes no sense whatsoever, but it's true. So can we please stop bringing that up?
Your claim that Satoshi is weak isn't really true, and doesn't fit with anything we're actually shown in the franchise. To consistently come out in sixteenth, eighth, or fourth place in tournaments filled with over a hundred trainers (all of which have earned eight badges) doesn't and was never meant by the writers to imply weakness. In the Sinnoh League, both Takeshi and Takuto talk up Satoshi's placement in the semifinals as a legitimate accomplishment. Satoshi has also been complimented by Elite 4 members and Shirona, a champion, as well as many of the experienced Gym Leaders that he's faced. The rankings aren't luck, they're put there by the writers for a reason. And to use a real life example - sports teams (such as in the NFL) that rank highly without winning the championship are still regarded as good teams, the same applies to Satoshi.
Believe me, I get the frustration of seeing him come up short time and again and having to start all over. I realize that you don't enjoy every decision the writers have made regarding Satoshi and his battles, especially when it comes to
Best Wishes. I don't think there's anyone that does. But calling him weak isn't just hyperbole, the writers have blatantly contradicted this. Satoshi shouldn't need to be overpowered just to prove that he's strong. Write him in a more consistent way? Sure. But don't overpower him. It's not necessary and it's frankly a sign of lazy writing.
On a less related note:
Famon said:
Does DP or Current Ash seem anything like Original Ash ???
I don't remember Ash being a Perfect Gentleman like DP , BW and XY Ash.
Original Ash was Sarcastic , Attention-seeker , Prideful , Mischievous , Quick-temper !
Original Ash was capable of tease/mock other character (mainly Misty) and having crush on Beautiful Girl like Giselle.
But Writer decide to cut out every negative Side a Boy has to turn Ash into a good Boy every parent loves.
But Ash is Human Boy , Not an Angel. A Human has both Positive & Negative side .
I don't recall Satoshi ever being a 'perfect gentlemen' in any of those shows. I'll grant that he hasn't been written as childishly as in the earliest Kanto episodes and, like the rest of the franchise in general, unfortunately became a bit less dynamic by mid-Jouto (BW and
XY are the worst of this but I'll admit that you can see it in Jouto, AG, and DP as well). But in DP alone, the show where he's supposedly at his most mature, Satoshi has argued with and teased Hikari in quite a few episodes, has been impatient to the point of irritating both his friends, said and done stupid things (attacking a waterfall in the Bouysel episode), has been greedy, has lost his temper, has been lazy, and has had moments of being dumb. In many ways he's still very much a child, and certainly no angel. There's no major character in DP who walked away with the impression that he was a perfect person, and Iris' catchphrase didn't come from nowhere.
So while certain aspects of his personality have been toned down after the OS, for better and for worse, Satoshi is not a drastically different character. The essence of his characterization still remains the same even if he's not written in exactly the same way as he used to be, which is only to be expected after almost twenty years on air. Different things are going to be emphasized over a long period of time, that's inevitable and it happens with any long-running media. To use an outside example solely to illustrate the point I'm making - the Simpsons aren't written exactly the same way in 2014 as they were in 1990, either, but they're still more or less the same characters as the creators envisioned them. And whether or not it's a good thing is entirely up to what you enjoy.
I prefer
Diamond & Pearl's portrayal of Satoshi over the original series. While I do enjoy how goofy and genuinely emotional Satoshi could be during the OS, the DP version resonates with me far more. Not that he's a drastically different character or anything, but the series' addition of Shinji as someone who challenges his philosophies on Pokémon training and actually makes him struggle to prove why it works made him more compelling. His setbacks, particularly in those Shinji episodes, resonate better because for once he's got a personal point to prove that goes beyond the guy he's facing being a jerk. It also brings back one of what I thought was the best thing AG did with him and once again partnered him with someone more inexperienced so that the writers get use her to get across the really obvious lessons that he's acknowledged to be beyond having to learn. I also thought the writers did a better job of showcasing his skill at battling (less stupid badge handouts, for example). And it's nice not having to cringe so much at his idiocy as you kind of have to do in the earliest Kanto episodes.
I don't want to get into an argument of which Satoshi is the best, because that'll ultimately depend on what you're looking for out of him, but whatever you prefer shouldn't be put on a pedestal. Satoshi wasn't perfectly written in the OS anymore than he was in DP, or any of the other shows for that matter.
And finally:
And There is various thing Writer can do with Ash after winning League conference--
--Create the Next step of Pokemon Master
Or
--Ash joining the International Police after he become a Champion. He goes to other region to fight other villainous team .
Or
--Become a Gag show about Ash's Random adventure after he become a Pokemon Master.
But none of those would adapt the "collect the badges" aspect of the games, which is what Satoshi is really there for. If he's not doing that, then his worth as the franchise's main character is gone. I also don't care for seeing what a Pokémon Master is. The idea doesn't make a lot of sense given that this is a world where "there's always someone better", and I'd honestly rather it remain a mystery. But that's just me.
I would prefer Satoshi to just be retired. Have him win a League, set off for his next adventure, and just start over with a different protagonist. But as long as the anime is still using him to collect Gym badges, then that journey should be written as a challenge for him.
