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[Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl] Will HMs make it over?

Treecko

the princess without voice
6,316
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  • I would hope so. Though in Let's Go they replaced the HMs with Secret Techniques but those weren't faithful remakes. I think they might bring them back to preserve the mechanics of the originals.
     
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  • I don't see HMs making the transition. Practically they don't serve much purpose outside prohibiting a Pokemon from fulfilling its full potential competitively.

    In recent years they've been outlawed somewhat, too.
     

    tokyodrift

    [i]got me looking for attention[/i]
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    Getting rid of HMs was one of the best decision they have ever made. It was like a block in the road, especially during the late game where you probably already had final movesets, just to have to delete one of them for a field attack you probably would only use once or twice to progress though the storyline. I still remember the days where once you taught an HM it was there forever lmao, what a time. If they do decide to bring them back, I'd like to see a more readily available move re-learner and more access to Heart Scales.
     

    machomuu

    Stuck in Hot Girl Summer
    10,507
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  • Getting rid of HMs was one of the best decision they have ever made. It was like a block in the road, especially during the late game where you probably already had final movesets, just to have to delete one of them for a field attack you probably would only use once or twice to progress though the storyline. I still remember the days where once you taught an HM it was there forever lmao, what a time. If they do decide to bring them back, I'd like to see a more readily available move re-learner and more access to Heart Scales.
    Completely agreed. It was one of those issues that basically just got worse with each game and DPP were the pinnacle of that. It was a nightmare in that game because one pokemon wasn't even enough and you either had to micromanage based on where you were going or just do what I did and deal with it and spread the HMs across your team so it wouldn't be so much of a hassle.
     
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    I hope they never come back. Gen IV is still one of my favorites, but the HM thing in it (and in Gen III too) got super annoying. Like in the late game you pretty much couldn't go anywhere with your full team because you needed one, or sometimes even two, free slots for HM slaves.

    Can't even count how many times I had to backtrack to the PC to deposit someone from my actual team to make room for the almighty Bibarel/Pelipper/Golduck.
     

    Senoue

    I'm back to rise!
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  • If this is gonna be like a 1 for 1 remake of the games, they have to make it over. I don't recall them saying they were gonna make any big changes during the announcements.
     
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  • Do you think HMs will return in Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl? They were a core mechanic of the original games and one could argue if this is a fully faithful remake they'll keep them, but on the other hand, traversing the world without them is so much easier.

    I think nowadays HM are pretty old-style and uncomfortable. On the other hand, one of the reasons why gen 4 games are cool is how hard exploration can be. I am talking about M. Cornet and Stark mountain, for example. without HM those would be way easier and indeed less interesting. I am pretty much sure those games are more of remastered versions more than actual remakes, therefore I am pretty sure HM will be there
     
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  • I think nowadays HM are pretty old-style and uncomfortable. On the other hand, one of the reasons why gen 4 games are cool is how hard exploration can be. I am talking about M. Cornet and Stark mountain, for example. without HM those would be way easier and indeed less interesting. I am pretty much sure those games are more of remastered versions more than actual remakes, therefore I am pretty sure HM will be there

    Yeah, I can see them being brought back for these games, especially if they're trying to make them as close to the originals as possible. I wouldn't mind too much but if it were the case I just wish we could have a seventh slot for HM-only Pokémon or a way to make sure it doesn't use up a slot from the party. Now that we've had games without HMs, it's hard to want to go back, even for the sake of 'faithfulness' honestly. It's just not a good enough reason to bring them back imo.
     
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  • Yeah, I can see them being brought back for these games, especially if they're trying to make them as close to the originals as possible. I wouldn't mind too much but if it were the case I just wish we could have a seventh slot for HM-only Pokémon or a way to make sure it doesn't use up a slot from the party. Now that we've had games without HMs, it's hard to want to go back, even for the sake of 'faithfulness' honestly. It's just not a good enough reason to bring them back imo.

    tbh i wouldn't mind having them back again, because, as i said, it would be a way to make explorations more difficult and i personally appreciated that part of the game.
    On the other hand I really hate the fact that you have to make ur pokemon learn them; it's quite meaningless, especially now that way more people know about competitive. anyway competitive will never come to remakes, so whatever...
     

    TheFandomPerson

    Overgrown Emo Kid
    10
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  • Ideally no. Unless the majority of them get actual typing and some kind of buff, I don't want them. I hate being limited to 4-5 Pokemon because a route is too damn foggy and I don't want to stick Defog on my Crobat.
     
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  • I believe Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl will bring back the HM mechanics in some manner.

    Playing Pokemon Unbound lately, I think they found a great balance of requiring HMs but not forcing the player to use up precious move slots. So long as you have a Pokemon that can learn the HM, it is useable in the field. I always liked the idea of using your Pokemon to traverse parts of the world, but the original implementation of HMs are indeed an outdated mechanic. I think simply being given a Pokemon for a particular job (Sun Moon) is lazy and removes the choice that players have. Making the decision to bring a Pokemon who can help you surf the waters or fly to a town was sometimes a management task in itself, but that has been dumbed down. I think Game Freak (or ILCA) could find a good balance to achieve this goal without making it burdensome for the player.

    If I want to break some walls to get through a mountain, it would make sense that I need a Pokemon who is capable of such a task. That's why you see Hikers in mountains with Pokemon that can do that.

    I feel like the end goal solution will be to make every single Pokemon (whether based on their type or simply how the Pokemon is built) to be able to innately Surf, Fly, smash rocks, push heavy objects, climb walls and waterfalls, and whatever other creative traversable problem that requires a type of Pokemon for its solution. This would of course depend on the capabilities of the Pokemon. I imagine something like a Kakuna would not be able to cut trees or surf. Since we are limited to owning a Gym Badge in order to even be allowed to use HMs outside of battle (why is this the case anyway?), Game Freak can still keep that restriction.

    I imagine a scenario where there are no more HM moves (they can be learnable as simply moves that Pokemon can learn upon level up or as TMs like Flash) and if the player wants to surf or fly, so long as they have a Pokemon that can literally swim or fly (perhaps the size of the Pokemon can come into play here) the player should be able to do it once the required Gym Bade is acquired.

    That way we as players still have to decide who to bring if we want to traverse certain areas. I feel like it doesn't make sense to allow players to go anywhere they want if they don't bring the appropriate Pokemon (from the laundry list of Pokemon available for each task it shouldn't be difficult). It's just lazy design otherwise imo.
     

    Duck

    🦆 quack quack
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    I think it's important to make a distinction here: Field Obstacles vs HMs.

    Field Obstacles affects progression in a (somewhat) believable manner, makes overworld puzzles and signal paths for exploration.

    HMs are one way to deal with Field Obstacles, and not a particular great one.

    Personally, I hope HMs don't come back, but Field Obstacles do and we deal with them via Key Items, Ride Pokémon, Pokétch Apps, whatever. Anything besides HMs.
     
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  • God I hope there aren't any HMs. Sinnoh was the absolute worst experience in terms of HMs with defog being the worst HM (right up there with flash) and needing an absolute truckload of HMs to get through victory road. Honestly I really wouldnt mind having the obstacles like boulders and rocks and whatnot as long as there is no (force pokemon to learn this useless, unremovable move) mechanic. We have have key items, special pokemon like in gen 7, anything really, just not the OG HMs
     
    64
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    • Seen Oct 29, 2021
    I hope not. They're one of the worst parts of the original Sinnoh games.

    The best way to do HMs IMO would be to have them as learnable skills that don't take up a moveset slot. So you can teach "Fly" to your Pidgeot, but it isn't the move Fly, just the ability to fly between areas.

    But the way Sword and Shield did it was really elegant and pretty much just as good. Have a Pokemon-based taxi service for fast travel and a bike upgrade to ride on water. You could have other item based means of travel like rock climbing gear, a hatchet to chop through small trees, etc.
     

    Shrew

    is a Shrew
    838
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  • I hope so. The portable PC would make them pretty easy to manage. I always liked how sinnoh had 8 HMs, one for each gym leader. The games come alive when my pokemon help me traverse the world together.
     

    Sydian

    fake your death.
    33,379
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  • oh she better not lol hms were the worst part of sinnoh. so many are necessary to go into required areas to complete the game. and it's bs to have to redo my party's movesets or plan for such terrible moves just to get up a mountain. really one of sinnoh's biggest downfalls in that there's so much to explore that i want to explore, but i'm hindered by the need for hms. give me a ride pager please gamefreak.
     
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  • I just realised that if HMs DID return, there's a good chance it actually wouldn't be as much a problem as before. Usually in Pokemon games now you can access your Pokemon Storage Boxes from anywhere in the game. Assuming BDSP keeps this, if you didn't want to have HM moves on your team, you could just temporarily switch in a boxed HM user. It's still not ideal, but it's better than having to go to the nearest Pokemon Center and do the Switch each time you encounter a HM obstacle, or have to permanently carry around a HM user.
     
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