Yet another "Should I get a Mac or Windows PC?' thread

[Archer]

Maybe you were lucky. I hated Lion and so did sooo many others because Lion just crapped out on so many of our clients. There is a reason why it was nicknamed Apple's Vista when it came out.

I wasn't the only one that had a smooth install. Like ANY OS release, you only see people complaining both online and in an IT Servicing position. All of the Lion updates I did for customers went smoothly, as well of all of the people I know who did their own.

I'm not denying for a second that there are drawbacks, but most of them lie with compatibility issues with legacy software and issues with upgrading. The OP is going to have a new system and be new to the Mac OS, so they won't be attached to any PPC software. The major faults were sorted with the recent update, so there's next to no reason for the OP to have an issue with Lion.

I'm still not supporting either choice yet. I just don't agree with shooting down Lion as a decent OS.

 

[Kura]

How am I incorrect? I have both Mac & PC and I've went on them both and Mac is better overall even though PC has a lot of awesome software that Mac doesn't have (or at least doesn't have a good version of it) PCs can easily get a virus while it's hard to give a virus to a Mac.

In a way I sort of agree with this.. it's not that it's easier, per say.. but I feel like Mac customer service is leaps and bounds above windows. Especially if you are bringing your computer to another country and need it to work- if there's an issue there's always a number to call. And they have always either fixed my problems within 30 minutes, or got me a replacement part in a matter of 2 days.
With windows you may need to ship it out and the process can take even up to a month or two! Not good if you need the computer for work!

I think there is more software available to PC but that is changing. And Lion is a little shaky right now but it should have updates and patches soon. Apple is pretty good about doing that.
BTW I personally don't think a MBAir is worth the money. It may be much more worth it to you just to get a pro or a mac.. perhaps you can also look into a mac-mini if you want to build.


Overall you just need it to cater to your needs. And if you're getting a mac, then get applecare. Also, please realize it's harder to rip programs for mac in certain cases.. and you may need to get used to some shortcuts (command, shift, 3 is a screenshot, for example.) And you'll need to grab programs like MS Word separately..

And how are you with change? Can you take it well?



I have a mac and a PC, and one I use for my work and the other I use more for recreation. I personally prefer mac due to it's ease and interface.. and sometimes PC can make me frustrated because it may not always be a straightforward solution. I get angry easily when something doesn't work perfectly on my computer, so when it happens to me when I am on my windows PC then I tire so easily and I don't want to bother with it anymore.


There are a lot of factors. All I can say is go to the apple store and try some out if you can. They have sessions you can book to get more of an understanding on how to use a mac and that may help your decision.

Good luck!


BY THE WAY..
Msn for mac sucks.. i use aMSN.. it's an MSN clone but I prefer it to actual windows live now. No adds.. completely customizable.. even all the icons. Some skins are absolutely gorgeous. I recommend it. Also skype is tons better on a mac than a pc.

 

[Zet]

In a way I sort of agree with this.. it's not that it's easier, per say.. but I feel like Mac customer service is leaps and bounds above windows. Especially if you are bringing your computer to another country and need it to work- if there's an issue there's always a number to call. And they have always either fixed my problems within 30 minutes, or got me a replacement part in a matter of 2 days.
With windows you may need to ship it out and the process can take even up to a month or two! Not good if you need the computer for work!

I think there is more software available to Windows but that is changing. And Lion is a little shaky right now but it should have updates and patches soon. Apple is pretty good about doing that.
BTW I personally don't think a MBAir is worth the money. It may be much more worth it to you just to get a pro or a mac.. perhaps you can also look into a mac-mini if you want to build.


Overall you just need it to cater to your needs. And if you're getting a mac, then get applecare. Also, please realize it's harder to rip programs for mac in certain cases.. and you may need to get used to some shortcuts (command, shift, 3 is a screenshot, for example.) And you'll need to grab programs like MS Word separately..

And how are you with change? Can you take it well?



I have a mac and a Windows, and one I use for my work and the other I use more for recreation. I personally prefer mac due to it's ease and interface.. and sometimes Windows can make me frustrated because it may not always be a straightforward solution. I get angry easily when something doesn't work perfectly on my computer, so when it happens to me when I am on my windows PC then I tire so easily and I don't want to bother with it anymore.


There are a lot of factors. All I can say is go to the apple store and try some out if you can. They have sessions you can book to get more of an understanding on how to use a mac and that may help your decision.

Good luck!


BY THE WAY..
Msn for mac sucks.. i use aMSN.. it's an MSN clone but I prefer it to actual windows live now. No ads.. completely customizable.. even all the icons. Some skins are absolutely gorgeous. I recommend it. Also skype is tons better on a mac than Windows.

Actually that's a bit wrong. With Windows you only need to ship it to the supplier i.e HP, Dell, Acer etc for hardware issues(I know you mentioned it in your post but I thought it would be better for people to know what exactly) and you would do the same with a Mac(they too can take up to 2months :P), since software issues can be done with a quick Google search. Also do you mind explaining why Skype is better on a Mac?

 

[Kura]

Actually that's a bit wrong. With Windows you only need to ship it to the supplier i.e HP, Dell, Acer etc for hardware issues(I know you mentioned it in your post but I thought it would be better for people to know what exactly) and you would do the same with a Mac(they too can take up to 2months :P), since software issues can be done with a quick Google search. Also do you mind explaining why Skype is better on a Mac?

I was referring more to Asus, actually.. since that's what I have. I don't have experience with other laptops because my brother builds his own desktops and his laptop is also an Asus. If you read the fine print, the coverage is sometimes NOT worldwide and limited to certain countries. I was also looking on xoticpc and it really showed all the specifications for that stuff regarding some other laptops such as MSI ones. It's just so much more of a hassle. Sometimes with them you CAN get worldwide coverage, but oftentimes the option isn't even available. When it is, it's expensive. When it isn't.. it's expensive to have to ship it out.. and a hassle, especially with the whole Canadian Postal Strike over the summer being an issue and having to post it ourselves. It'd be detrimental if that happened again. I've also had terrible over-the-phone customer service when trying to fix a (what should've been) simple issue with an Aunt's HP desktop. Just overall terrible, in my opinion. At least with mac you know you're covered if they lose it in the mail (at least when you bring it to the apple store they've said that to me; at least that's the guarantee over here.) And no, I've never heard of an issue where it took that long with mac. With a friend of mine, they simply replaced the entire laptop (it was 2 years old) of his because they couldn't solve his issue quick enough. They've also replaced a battery for me with no hassle (after a year of use) just because I told them "It isn't running as good as when I first got it" and it was under 300 cycles. It's just better. I have no qualms.

I prefer skype on mac because of the simple tabs, and the fact that the video window always lies on top of any other windows. It's just so easy for me to talk to my boyfriend while working on something or switching windows without having to keep clicking back and forth or resizing windows just to speak to him. I feel like the notifications are better organized, and adding people or organizing people is a lot more intuitive. I'm on skype a lot so this ease of access means a lot to me. Maybe it's just a personal preference thing, but I truly do prefer it to windows.

Oh, and P.S. PC stands for Personal Computer, so your mac would be a PC.

Also, I don't know why you felt the need to correct me so intently when windows' own commercials refer to its products as "PC." In my case, using the term PC would still be correct as I am indeed referring to a personal computer. I find it hard to believe you can't assume the distinction that I imply by using PC in place of windows based computers. Windows is software, not hardware, and I was mostly referring to hardware anyways.

 

[Shining Raichu]

Thank you everyone! I'm still listening to everyone's POVs and stuff so please keep the debate raging :P - I do have questions for some of you but it's 1am so I'm not going to delve into those just now, I'll do that probably on Thursday when I have a day off and tons of free time.

Right now I just wanted to weigh in on the Vista / Lion thing and say that calling Lion the Mac version of Vista doesn't really deter me all that much, since I'm currently using Vista and have been since I got this computer three years ago. I'd heard all the bad press that it had received and was a bit nervous about it at the time but once I started using it I honestly had no idea why everybody was so down on it. I've never had one problem with it. If Lion is the same, then I'm not sure that that's such a bad thing :/

 

[twocows]

If it wasn't for my massive personal vendetta against Apple, I might recommend a MBP to you in this very specific case, but unfortunately my moral standards aren't low enough to recommend you fund terrorism (no, I won't explain that, I've been following tech news for the better part of a decade and can't remember every single thing Apple has done that enraged me).

I'd say go with an ASUS laptop. Lenovo is nice, but you said you like shiny things and ASUS has some nice laptop designs. Also, you should check out this Windows 7 skin, which is awesome: link. I don't use it personally, but if I used Aero (and Windows 7), I'd use it.

I was referring more to Asus, actually.. since that's what I have. I don't have experience with other laptops because my brother builds his own desktops and his laptop is also an Asus. If you read the fine print, the coverage is sometimes NOT worldwide and limited to certain countries. I was also looking on xoticpc and it really showed all the specifications for that stuff regarding some other laptops such as MSI ones. It's just so much more of a hassle. Sometimes with them you CAN get worldwide coverage, but oftentimes the option isn't even available. When it is, it's expensive. When it isn't.. it's expensive to have to ship it out.. and a hassle, especially with the whole Canadian Postal Strike over the summer being an issue and having to post it ourselves. It'd be detrimental if that happened again. I've also had terrible over-the-phone customer service when trying to fix a (what should've been) simple issue with an Aunt's HP desktop. Just overall terrible, in my opinion. At least with mac you know you're covered if they lose it in the mail (at least when you bring it to the apple store they've said that to me; at least that's the guarantee over here.) And no, I've never heard of an issue where it took that long with mac. With a friend of mine, they simply replaced the entire laptop (it was 2 years old) of his because they couldn't solve his issue quick enough. They've also replaced a battery for me with no hassle (after a year of use) just because I told them "It isn't running as good as when I first got it" and it was under 300 cycles. It's just better. I have no qualms.

It's ironic that you cite cost as an issue when, even with the most inane [sic] support contracts, I've never seen a non-Apple laptop computer cost more than an Apple one with similar specs and warranty options.

Also, HP is well known for having crappy support. It's important to remember that every manufacturer provides a different level of support and not to just group them all together. My favorite big-name manufacturers are ASUS, Lenovo, and Toshiba. I've also been considering getting a System76 laptop or desktop. None of them have any relation with HP.

Also, I don't know why you felt the need to correct me so intently when windows' own commercials refer to its products as "PC." In my case, using the term PC would still be correct as I am indeed referring to a personal computer. I find it hard to believe you can't assume the distinction that I imply by using PC in place of windows based computers. Windows is software, not hardware, and I was mostly referring to hardware anyways.

Microsoft isn't the be-all end-all of personal computing. Just because their marketing department (and for the record, marketing departments rarely know anything about technology) feels obliged to follow Apple's marketing department in misusing the terminology doesn't mean that the terminology itself is correct. If you're referring to hardware, the convention is usually "Apple-branded" or "non Apple-branded" (Apple themselves use that distinction internally). If you're referring to the OS, just use the name of it.

 

[Kura]

Thank you everyone! I'm still listening to everyone's POVs and stuff so please keep the debate raging :P - I do have questions for some of you but it's 1am so I'm not going to delve into those just now, I'll do that probably on Thursday when I have a day off and tons of free time.

Right now I just wanted to weigh in on the Vista / Lion thing and say that calling Lion the Mac version of Vista doesn't really deter me all that much, since I'm currently using Vista and have been since I got this computer three years ago. I'd heard all the bad press that it had received and was a bit nervous about it at the time but once I started using it I honestly had no idea why everybody was so down on it. I've never had one problem with it. If Lion is the same, then I'm not sure that that's such a bad thing :/

If you wanted to "downgrade" you can buy Snow Leopard at the apple store (online or in person) for only $30. I just bought it recently because I'm still on Tiger.. and I plan to upgrade if/ when my system starts to act faulty or in cases where I really needed it.



I agree with twocows.. Asus are great computers.. I'd recommend one or a MBP, personally. But like I said, there's always sessions you can take at the apple store to get more familiarized with mac and see then if you want to make the switch.



Also, twocows, I did cite cost.. but I don't really mean cost being a big deal- but it's still a valid point. It's more about convenience.. I just like being able to walk into the apple store and have them handle it. I'm the type of person who gets easily frustrated with customer service when they try to dilly-dally around issues and things. And Ive known of people with PCs who've shipped them out back and forth like 5 times in the span of 2 months because they weren't actually fixing the issue. Geek Squad can also be a load of bull with some cases.
I feel like the only windows customer service that is great is at TigerDirect (yes we have an actual store near me.)

When I was in the UK last year and my MBP was running hot and at 98-100% with no apps open, it was just so easy to walk down to the store, have them look at it, and solve the issue in like 10 minutes. While I was there it was also nice of them to take it apart and clean any dust and dirt that may have been inside.
It just feels.. nice and thorough. To me it's worth the extra bucks.

If I had a PC with that same issue I may try to hold onto it as long as possible and not have to ship it overseas. I wouldn't know how long it'd take, and I didn't want them to ship my computer back to a flat I've moved out of. My computer was the only entertainment I had at the time (besides a DS.. yes I had no tv because I was going to be there only 3 and a half months) and I didn't trust them shipping it at my door where I had other flatmates that I didn't know well. I NEEDED my computer not only for work, but also to keep in contact with loved ones as calling gets expensive.

That's what I mean by convenience. I realize this is a case by case basis, but any valid information is always helpful.

 

[Archer]

If you wanted to "downgrade" you can buy Snow Leopard at the apple store (online or in person) for only $30. I just bought it recently because I'm still on Tiger.. and I plan to upgrade if/ when my system starts to act faulty or in cases where I really needed it.

Ah, be careful with that. AFAIK, you can't install an earlier version of OSX than the one that came with a particular system. Besides, it just doesn't make sense to do so. I can totally understand sticking with your current OS until the new one is fine-tuned, but going backwards is another thing. It's like buying a new computer and running XP or Vista on it. Sure, they both work fine, but you're still going backwards and in some cases (ie, XP on a new computer) neutering said system.

At the end of the day, the current Macbook Pro line consists of some brilliant computers. You should be happy with one of them. However. That's not to say that you can't have similar or the same quality from a Windows-based Notebook. (That saves people arguing the semantics). Just make sure to read up on reviews, let a model stay out for a month or so to see if any faults arise, have a play around in-store to make sure the keyboard and trackpad are solid and nice to use (one of the things the MBP does incredibly well). Check the screen quality and viewing angle, both at high and low brightness. Check for flex in the casing (it will only get worse over time. If you don't feel comfortable picking a notebook up from either front corner for fear of it creaking or snapping, the build quality is NOT up to scratch. Unless you're doing intensive stuff, the general grunt of the machine isn't worth splitting hairs over. I'd go with an i3 with a great screen over an i7 with a crappy one any day of the week.

That's more about notebook buying advice in general. Whether or not that's a Mac depends on one main thing - which OS do you prefer?

 

[SpeedyGeek]

This isn't a discussion on Vista, so I'm leaving that. You can think what you'd like.

There is no thinking here. I've pretty much stated the unanimous consensus amongst the tech community for the two OSs. You can go raging all you want against what I said but it doesn't deter from the fact that both OSs have had their incredible amount fair share of flaws.

How am I incorrect? I have both Mac & PC and I've went on them both and Mac is better overall even though PC has a lot of awesome software that Mac doesn't have (or at least doesn't have a good version of it) PCs can easily get a virus while it's hard to give a virus to a Mac.

Are you serious? Any skilled cracker will crack into an unprotected computer within minutes regardless of the OS. With physical access? That's even easier. How is recovery disk going to help? All your personal files, data, passwords, etc are all vulnerable to being stolen. Recovery disks do NOTHING to help. Viruses are completely dependent on the user, not the OS.

I wasn't the only one that had a smooth install. Like ANY OS release, you only see people complaining both online and in an IT Servicing position. All of the Lion updates I did for customers went smoothly, as well of all of the people I know who did their own.

Have you forgotten what I do? Lion makes everything look totally n00bish and even with the latest update it still has several flaws. In fact, most of the cases that I deal with are... *gasp* Macs with Lion. Maybe I'm looking from too much of a techy perspective, but Lion isn't the ideal OS to make the jump to.

 

[Archer]

Have you forgotten what I do? Lion makes everything look totally n00bish and even with the latest update it still has several flaws. In fact, most of the cases that I deal with are... *gasp* Macs with Lion. Maybe I'm looking from too much of a techy perspective, but Lion isn't the ideal OS to make the jump to.

I haven't forgotten, that's the sole reason I mentioned what one would see in an IT servicing position. No-one is going to come to you with a working computer, plus the number of Macs in a uni/college atmosphere is going to be MUCH higher than any other demographic. Assume at best, 1 in 2 jobs you see could be a Lion-toting-Mac. I don't know what your workplace is like, but my uni was getting close to 50% Mac among students. Most of those are going to be up-to-date. So that accounts for a large chunk of the Macs you see. Also, I'm not going to deny that Lion had (and still has, although most were sorted with previous updates) issues with wifi. Given that's going to be the number 1 problem you'll deal with in your job, I'm wouldn't be surprised if every second computer you see IS a Mac.

What I'm getting at is that it's VERY difficult NOT to have a skewed impression of the number of faults with any OS in an IT occupation. You might only have a 1 in 20 issue, but to you or me, it will look like a 1-in-2 issue. Lion isn't as polished as Snow Leopard by any means (not surprising , but it's a .2 release, compared to Snow Leopard's .8), but that's not to say it's a bad OS. At least not enough to turn someone off buying one when they would have been happy with Snow Leopard.

Anyway, I can't help but feel that we're getting off-topic here. So I'll stop.

Any questions, Shining Raichu?

 

[Kura]

Ah, be careful with that. AFAIK, you can't install an earlier version of OSX than the one that came with a particular system. Besides, it just doesn't make sense to do so. I can totally understand sticking with your current OS until the new one is fine-tuned, but going backwards is another thing. It's like buying a new computer and running XP or Vista on it. Sure, they both work fine, but you're still going backwards and in some cases (ie, XP on a new computer) neutering said system.

Really? I didn't know that. I'm the type of person who likes to stick something for a long time if I don't NEED to change.. hence why I'm still running Tiger on my 5-year old MBP.. and IMO it works wonderfully.
I'm going to give my computer a wipe and reinstall to Snow Leopard if I ever get a new iPod/ Iphone etc.. or if my Tiger starts to become unreliable or if I want a fresh start (because right now I can't get the newest itunes.. but right now it's unneeded so I am content with my old OS.)
I didn't know downgrading software was really that detrimental.. but I totally get your point and I can see how it is. :3

However.. right now Lion doesn't work with Maya 2012 at all.. and in fact has problems with other versions of Maya (Autodesk is recommending not to upgrate) so for me.. "downgrading" would be a better option in order to use that program for work.

But again Raichu doesn't need to worry about that.. since he wouldn't be using it for heavy 3D graphics.. soo.. really we're just gonna have to sit and wait till he explores his options a bit more and be there for him if he has any questions.

 

[twocows]

Really? I didn't know that. I'm the type of person who likes to stick something for a long time if I don't NEED to change.. hence why I'm still running Tiger on my 5-year old MBP.. and IMO it works wonderfully.

That's a bad idea. For the most part, newer operating systems are inherently more secure than older ones.

 

[Snatch That Child Drifloon!]

I'd go with the macbook. The transition can take a while to get used to but it's worth it. After that you'll only need Chrome and a good messenger client.