4-Year Survival Plan

[Caaethil]

Yeah, I'm sure that was what turned off traditional left wing groups, not all the other crap she came with. Come on, wise up. No one on the right was going to vote Clinton anyway.

I don't feel the need to repeat that when I say it's the reason he won, I mean I think it tipped the scales. I have never said "everyone voted Trump because Clinton is a bully!!"

What? You outright stated it was the key factor earlier then proceeded to argue against my list of actual key factors before finally conceding that your key factor was actually just a fairly baseless opinion that doesn't hold water in the wider picture.

Can something be a key factor in my fairly baseless opinion? Come on now, I'm trying to be reasonable here and at least admit when I can't entirely validate something with facts. Want me to say that I was too certain of myself in my original post? Is that what will satisfy you? Yeah, sure. I was too certain of myself in my original post. I don't know for sure - obviously - that's just what I've perceived myself.

Tell that to Field Marshal Haig.

I'm not great at inference, you're going to need to provide an argument against my statement for me to take said argument into consideration. If he wasn't dead, I would tell him it and see what he has to say. If he had a contrasting, better opinion I'd update my own because that's how reasonable debates work.

Correctumundo, I provided the voting trends post to bolster and back the reasoning behind my list. The voter trend posts was a direct response to you claiming my list was baseless and had no factual backing. You have made a post criticising the list since I provided, and further explained, the voter trend data. As such, i am really at a loss to why you're so transfixed on this.

Same reason you were so transfixed on the great list. The post on voting trends was interesting and I noted it as such. Your list means nothing to me - I was already aware of all of those reasons.

I'm not even sure where to go with this one. It isn't what anybody said because only somebody with the fiber and fortitude of a child would allow their vote to be swayed because somebody called them out for being racist.

Stop saying 'called them out'. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that these people are not actually racists. Why are we going in circles here?

 

[Hands]

I don't feel the need to repeat that when I say it's the reason he won, I mean I think it tipped the scales. I have never said "everyone voted Trump because Clinton is a bully!!"


Can something be a key factor in my fairly baseless opinion? Come on now, I'm trying to be reasonable here and at least admit when I can't entirely validate something with facts. Want me to say that I was too certain of myself in my original post? Is that what will satisfy you? Yeah, sure. I was too certain of myself in my original post. I don't know for sure - obviously - that's just what I've perceived myself.


I'm not great at inference, you're going to need to provide an argument against my statement for me to take said argument into consideration. If he wasn't dead, I would tell him it and see what he has to say. If he had a contrasting, better opinion I'd update my own because that's how reasonable debates work.


Same reason you were so transfixed on the great list. The post on voting trends was interesting and I noted it as such. Your list means nothing to me - I was already aware of all of those reasons.


Stop saying 'called them out'. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that these people are not actually racists. Why are we going in circles here?

I'm gonna skim over most of this because frankly I've either already addressed it or it's just backpeddling now but I will address your last fallacy.

Who are not actually racist? You've yet to provide any serious evidence, examples or research that suggests the left have en masse harassed the right with baseless accusations of racism, it's just some shallow fantasy you keep presenting. Newsflash buddy, people who call Syrain refugees rats, scum, rapists, suggest they should be euthanized etc are racist. People who suggest that Trump's views on women aren't sexist and that grabbing someone by the crotch isnt that bad are sexist and people who try and stop gay marriage, who advocate conversion therapy and who backed Pence for VP are homophobic.

And these are the exact people I've seen called out. In fact, over the past two weeks, out of the thousands of posts on left wing pages I'm on on Social media, I've yet to see a single post calling Trump supporters all racist, sexist or homophobic. I've seen several posts defending the majority of Trump voters. The only people I've ever seen shamed are the tossers who deserve it because their views are toxic and the exact foul nonsense my grandfather and millions of others fought against.

 

[Caaethil]

Who are not actually racist? You've yet to provide any serious evidence, examples or research that suggests the left have en masse harassed the right with baseless accusations of racism, it's just some shallow fantasy you keep presenting.

A Google search helps:

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=shaming%20trump%20supporters

About half the results are commenting on the mass shaming. The other half are doing the shaming. Obviously there are no actual studies on this matter (as far as I'm aware, anyway). This isn't a matter we can effectively put numbers to. But the shaming is happening, now more than ever. Same happened with Brexit. Hillary has openly shamed Trump supporters - I don't think anyone can deny that much - and where she leads her supporters follow.

Newsflash buddy, people who call Syrain refugees rats, scum, rapists, suggest they should be euthanized etc are racist. People who suggest that Trump's views on women aren't sexist and that grabbing someone by the crotch isnt that bad are sexist and people who try and stop gay marriage, who advocate conversion therapy and who backed Pence for VP are homophobic.

News flash 'buddy', I didn't say that those people aren't racist, sexist or homophobic.

 

[Hands]

A Google search helps:

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=shaming trump supporters

About half the results are commenting on the mass shaming. The other half are doing the shaming. Obviously there are no actual studies on this matter (as far as I'm aware, anyway). This isn't a matter we can effectively put numbers to. But the shaming is happening, now more than ever. Same happened with Brexit. Hillary has openly shamed Trump supporters - I don't think anyone can deny that much - and where she leads her supporters follow.


News flash 'buddy', I didn't say that those people aren't racist, sexist or homophobic.

Come now, you don't need to be sarky with the buddy remarks. Don't use it if you don't mean it.

The vast majority of the left aren't randomly attacking Trump supporters, that's simply untrue. Your link doesn't suggest it at all, there are a few center-left news outlets telling people not to shame Trump supporters, and one article from spiked telling fellow feminists not to berate female trump supporters. There's also an article which boasts "AMAZING! 20,000 TRUMP SUPPORTERS SHAME MEDIA!!" Very little, if any, evidence of mass shaming of innocent Trump supporters by the left.

 

[Caaethil]

Come now, you don't need to be sarky with the buddy remarks. Don't use it if you don't mean it.

You mean it? Came off as more snide than anything else but I'm willing to accept either way.

The vast majority of the left aren't randomly attacking Trump supporters, that's simply untrue.

I don't think the vast majority is by any means.

Your link doesn't suggest it at all, there are a few center-left news outlets telling people not to shame Trump supporters, and one article from spiked telling fellow feminists not to berate female trump supporters. There's also an article which boasts "AMAZING! 20,000 TRUMP SUPPORTERS SHAME MEDIA!!" Very little, if any, evidence of mass shaming of innocent Trump supporters by the left.

Picking out the exceptions doesn't proving anything. "there are a few center-left news outlets telling people not to shame Trump supporters" - 'a few' is an interesting choice of words.

I don't know how else you want me to prove this. The mainstream media has been massively anti-Trump from the start and the shame goes on. The polls all said Clinton would win and the only possible reason for that I can imagine is simply that people didn't want to say they were pro-Trump because of the baggage and shame that comes with that. It's self-evident.

Here are some more links. These aren't really facts or figures, I don't think such things exist. I just find them interesting and they at least give some examples of how Trump supporters actually feel they are being treated:

https://www.12news.com/news/politic...e-trump-supporters-feel-vote-shamed/351237981

https://extranewsfeed.com/i-listened-to-a-trump-supporter-49a41a9a99de#.1qoy1ntg6

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/03/secret-donald-trump-voters-speak-out

 

[Hands]

You mean it? Came off as more snide than anything else but I'm willing to accept either way.

The vast majority of the left aren't randomly attacking Trump supporters, that's simply untrue.

I don't think the vast majority is by any means.


Picking out the exceptions doesn't proving anything. "there are a few center-left news outlets telling people not to shame Trump supporters" - 'a few' is an interesting choice of words.

I don't know how else you want me to prove this. The mainstream media has been massively anti-Trump from the start and the shame goes on. The polls all said Clinton would win and the only possible reason for that I can imagine is simply that people didn't want to say they were pro-Trump because of the baggage and shame that comes with that. It's self-evident.

Here are some more links. These aren't really facts or figures, I don't think such things exist. I just find them interesting and they at least give some examples of how Trump supporters actually feel they are being treated:

https://www.12news.com/news/politic...e-trump-supporters-feel-vote-shamed/351237981

https://extranewsfeed.com/i-listened-to-a-trump-supporter-49a41a9a99de#.1qoy1ntg6

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/03/secret-donald-trump-voters-speak-out

Polls are meaningless in this context, this might surprise you as much as it surprised me but our cousins over the sea use very, very small sample groups. The media reported the polls putting Clinton up high because that's the result they wanted. Just like the Sun here puts polls of it's readers out as a factual view of the entire country. I think one thing that you may wholeheartedly agree with me on is the mainstream media is bought and is corrupt. This is moreso one of the reasons Trump won, because despite his dodgy past with tax dodging, he's viewed by a lot of people as uncorrupted.

The buddy thing is honestly not me being sarky. I know the way I type and talk comes across as confrontational, I use the word buddy a lot because I think it cuts away some of the hostility that I cause. It's a friendly gesture and an expression that none of this is personal more than anything.

 

[Caaethil]

Polls are meaningless in this context, this might surprise you as much as it surprised me but our cousins over the sea use very, very small sample groups. The media reported the polls putting Clinton up high because that's the result they wanted. Just like the Sun here puts polls of it's readers out as a factual view of the entire country. I think one thing that you may wholeheartedly agree with me on is the mainstream media is bought and is corrupt. This is moreso one of the reasons Trump won, because despite his dodgy past with tax dodging, he's viewed by a lot of people as uncorrupted.

Agreed, the media is corrupt. I'm not sure if I'd say they're manipulating the polls. I'd have to read up more, I'm not comfortable taking any stance on that.

The buddy thing is honestly not me being sarky. I know the way I type and talk comes across as confrontational, I use the word buddy a lot because I think it cuts away some of the hostility that I cause. It's a friendly gesture and an expression that none of this is personal more than anything.

Right, I understand. Sorry then, I took it the wrong way.

 

[Sektor]

Spoiler:

Bin Laden came from a wealthy Saudi family with connections to the royalty, not part of the royalty itself, and i'm fairly sure there's no credible sources i can find linking that charity to "training and money laundering to terrorists" but i'm open to any credible sources you may have on this.
But thus far no evidence has been found linking any part of 9/11 to the Saudi government and i'm more inclined to believe investigators than the angry families of victims of a tragedy. When something like that happens, people are always looking for someone to blame as will fight hard against any suggestion otherwise, it really does seem like their targets are misplaced here.

*beep boop boop beep* Here you go! Policy of the East.

Here's an article summarizing what the GAO said.

Here's what the GAO said

Here's a 62 page document on what the GAO reported.

Look at this good news! $32B to his charity (to potentially spread Saudi Arabian brand Islam and Sharia law). And then you find out Alwaleed said some things that were . . . insulting. And then there's this. And that. And this . . .

More. Moar. Moore.

It's there on the table, you just have to look through some of it. Granted, some of these sources are not governmental sources, but certain documents in 2002 have just recently become de-classified. Further more, several news outlets around the world agree that Saudi Arabia isn't a very nice regime. I think another look into Saudi Arabia would do everyone some good.

Saudi Arabia and North Korea may be tied for worst country. Saudi Arabia's prisons are in terrible disarray, their justice system runs on Sharia law, they hang dead bodies for all to witness, they teach their children to hate and more. That's all I really have to say about that.

Interesting. Did anyone catch the 5 year lobbying ban Trump is willing to impose? I for one, feel that it's a good idea.

 

[Somewhere_]

I think Obama is doing something similar with the 2 year lobbying ban on former members after his presidency.

 

[Livewire]

Funny how the Democratic party is the one that needs to change here, not the one that embraced the racist, fascist pig without a shred of accountability or any repercussions.

As for survival, stay angry, get out and get active, vote in the midterms in 2018, and gear up for 2020, it's gonna be wild.

 

[Sektor]

^ Sorry LW, I was trying to click 'Post Reply'. Anyways, I feel like not throwing things seems like a good place to start as any, right?

Anyways, Mike Pompeo has been tapped to head the CIA.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

Trump's cabinet appointments are confusing me a lot, there's a lot of basically nobodies who have no claim to anything other than being undeniably racist and some republican establishment randoms.

They're obviously not on merit, and i imagine the postions hardly ever are, but i'm curious on who's advising/telling Trump to appoint these people because they don't seem to have any real selling points for anyone? They're all either "Why are you putting a man deemed too racist to be a judge as your law man, why are you putting an Alt-right man who ran an awful hyper conservative (re:bigoted in at least some ways) news website" with no rhyme or reason for why they're there OR they're just "Why are you appointing a republican senator you have no personal ties to and no-one has ever heard of who has done nothing relevant to anyone to an important role"

 

[Nah]

I highly doubt anyone is advising Trump on his cabinet appointments, or even if they are, he doesn't care and just does whatever anyway. It was clear (to me at least) a while ago that the man doesn't exactly know what he's doing.

 

[Sir Codin]

Still praying the electors hand Hillary the win, otherwise let's riot.

 

[Somewhere_]

I highly doubt anyone is advising Trump on his cabinet appointments, or even if they are, he doesn't care and just does whatever anyway. It was clear (to me at least) a while ago that the man doesn't exactly know what he's doing.

I thought he had a small team? Idk.

I think he has some influencing because I dont know why he would choose Romney....

 

[Aliencommander1245]

I highly doubt anyone is advising Trump on his cabinet appointments, or even if they are, he doesn't care and just does whatever anyway. It was clear (to me at least) a while ago that the man doesn't exactly know what he's doing.

I think with the way he's confused, and the way he's half not caring and half knowing he's in over his head means that it's very easy to manipulate him. I'd wager there's someone, or multiple someones, with agendas inside his team telling him what to do with this.

 

[Sektor]

Still praying the electors hand Hillary the win, otherwise let's riot.

Let's not and say we did. Riots cause problems, not solve them.

But hey, turns out that at least half of Protesters didn't actually cast a ballot. Whoops. Guess they dropped the ball on that one, huh?

 

[Sir Codin]

Let's not and say we did. Riots cause problems, not solve them.

But hey, turns out that at least half of Protesters didn't actually cast a ballot. Whoops. Guess they dropped the ball on that one, huh?

https://www.snopes.com/most-trump-protesters-didnt-vote/

How about we wait until we get a sample size of more than 112 people from one city on the West Coast before we start claiming that anyone dropped any kind of balls?

 

[Biogoji]

I think a good survival plan would be for everyone to stop crying over spoilt milk and get over the fact that Trump won the election fair and square.

I believe that Trump most likely won't be that bad and if people really don't like him then instead of retreating into their safe spaces, rioting and screaming at people who have different opinions they should wait for the two years and go and vote in the midterms.

Yes Trump has an bit of an ego but so do alot of people on this planet and ego aside he seems like a nice and decent human being who has been very generous in the past.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

https://www.snopes.com/most-trump-protesters-didnt-vote/

How about we wait until we get a sample size of more than 112 people from one city on the West Coast before we start claiming that anyone dropped any kind of balls?

More than that, we can ask why that even matters? It's not like some people who couldn't/didn't vote being in a protest against a president who the majority of the population did not want to win means much beyond that they agree with the majority.

I think a good survival plan would be for everyone to stop crying over spoilt milk and get over the fact that Trump won the election fair and square.

Well, he did lose overall vote-wise, he does have a bunch of garbage policies and is shwoing how completely incompetent and uninformed he is about the whole presidential situation near constantly.

Also, you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the concept of protesting a Trump president. It's not about "whining that he won" it's showing solidarity to the groups he targeted, refusing to normalise his brand of bigotry and showing HIM that people, the majority even, won't just lie down and accept any of the garbage he wants to do

I believe that Trump most likely won't be that bad and if people really don't like him then instead of retreating into their safe spaces, rioting and screaming at people who have different opinions they should wait for the two years and go and vote in the midterms.

"Instead of grassroots activism and making your voice heard.... do that later."

Yes Trump has an bit of an ego but so do alot of people on this planet and ego aside he seems like a nice and decent human being who has been very generous in the past.

lol.

What about him, in particular, do you think is "nice" and what has he ever done that's "generous"?

He runs a scam charity and lied about giving to charitable causes about 4-5 times during his campaign, just paid out 25 million to victims of one of his scams, cut off support to the disabled grandson son of his dead brother because his parents protested being given no inheritance from Trump's father (And as such their grandfather) after the dying Alzheimer sufferer just happened to be visited by Trump shortly before changing his will to exclude them.

He's constantly attacking people over nothing, insulted a republican and called them a coward over them being captured as a prisoner of war, insulted the family of a veteran and refused to apologise, attacked several women for doing so much as expressing displeasure with him publicly.

Going past his character into his very real threats to strip rights from minorities and persecute them, and choosing a vice president who supports torturing a specific minority, ect ect ect.

Tell me how that man is anything you've described him as, beyond egotistical.