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Do you believe in the Bible?

£

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  • Thoughts on the Bible: There's some nice morals to be found there. There are some heavily outdated ridiculous morals to be found there. It's unwise to follow it to the letter for that reason. There's no concrete evidence that every translation etc. is completely accurate in the past 2000+ years since it's supposedly based either. So, despite religious upbringing/Catholic schooling, I don't buy it.

    Side note: Wouldn't it be interesting if we had some kind of situation where the human race got knocked down to piddly numbers and had to build back up, and Harry Potter books were the basis for some religious groups? I thought that'd be hilarious. I'd love it if the Bible came about in a similar fashion. Not fully relevant, but I thought about it while I was writing this so...
     

    Zehn

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  • Yeh I'm a Christian and I believe in the bible. I believe because the atheist stuff like evolution and the Big Bang are so stupid if u do the research. Also the Big Bang could have been how God created the earth and if u believe that the earth is as old as scientist claims, there should be ALOT more humans then there are today
     
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  • Yeh I'm a Christian and I believe in the bible. I believe because the atheist stuff like evolution and the Big Bang are so stupid if u do the research. Also the Big Bang could have been how God created the earth and if u believe that the earth is as old as scientist claims, there should be ALOT more humans then there are today

    1. Big Bang and Evolution are not inherently atheistic.

    2. You state the big bang is "stupid" and easily rejectable with "research", but then go on to explain that God could have caused the big bang, which is a contradiction, since you have claimed to developed research which refutes the big bang theory supposedly. Could you point me to your findings?

    3. Evolutionary Theory is well-established and agreed upon by biologists which have conducted actual research. Could you point me to the research that you have conducted to refute the claims and findings in the field of evolutionary biology?
     

    Ivysaur

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  • if u believe that the earth is as old as scientist claims, there should be ALOT more humans then there are today

    > Implying that historical reproduction rates have always been as high as they are nowadays, which is a huge "did not do the research" in the field of history of human civilization.
     

    pokecole

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  • I personally do not believe in the bible as something I would follow and agree with at all times blindly. I'm not going to tell people, "Nope, it happened just like that. It's true.". I'm the type of person who is scarcely going to believe something without justified proof, and believe these stories doesn't come to me easily.

    However, I do believe, as many people have said already, that the Bible is a great text speaking from a moral standpoint. While some things are quite outdated, values like not committing murder are quite timeless. I believe that if people looked at the Bible as something that you could get value out of without believing the nice story, then we could have a much better society. It's kind of like saying that you either don't believe that slow and steady is good, or that you do believe it, as well as that a turtle also had a race with a rabbit and won. Ridiculous, right? It's a nice story with great morals, but some things in it should not be taken for absolute truth.

    I also feel that a higher being that is omniscient shouldn't have such petty human emotions, such as rage. Several times in the Bible "God" gets upset at humans and decides to wipe out a fleet of them. A truly omniscient being would be much more forgiving, rather than just leaving them in the dark and hating them when they act wrong.

    My final reason for not believing in the literal stories in the Bible is that I like to look at things scientifically. While I'm not going to get into the whole "Big bang theory" thing, (mostly because the theory isn't a guarantee and there are many great other theories on the origin) I am going to talk about evolution. Back during the times of the Bible, we didn't know how people got to be like we are today, and this caused ridiculous theories. Today we are much more knowledgeable about evolution, and have quite the iron-clad proof that we know what we're talking about. It certainly makes more sense to me than just poof.

    If you want to believe in the Bible for its literal stories and meaning, that's great, and you're free to do so. Just know that not everyone thinks similarly.
     
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    Ivysaur

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  • My final reason for not believing in the literal stories in the Bible is that I like to look at things scientifically. While I'm not going to get into the whole "Big bang theory" thing, (mostly because the theory isn't a guarantee and there are many great other theories on the origin) I am going to talk about evolution. Back during the times of the Bible, we didn't know how people got to be like we are today, and this caused ridiculous theories.

    May I also remind you that the concept "scientific theory" does not have the same meaning as the word "theory".

    A "theory" is an idea I just got and may or may not work. In scientific language, that's called "hypothesis".

    A "scientific theory" is a tested model that successfully explains an event and that has been proved to be more accurate than any other possible explanations. In other words, a "scientific theory" is the closest thing to "the truth" science can offer. Of course, it doesn't mean it's 100% certain- if some new event arises and the model cannot explain it, we'll have to look for a new one or make changes. But, with all the info we humans have available as of today, the Big Bang Theory is not a random idea some guy had that may or may not work- but rather, the best explanation to the origin of the universe mankind has been able to find. Therefore, all those other "great theories" are not actually theories but rather just hypothesis that, when tested, have fared worse than the BB.
     

    pokecole

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  • May I also remind you that the concept "scientific theory" does not have the same meaning as the word "theory".

    A "theory" is an idea I just got and may or may not work. In scientific language, that's called "hypothesis".

    A "scientific theory" is a tested model that successfully explains an event and that has been proved to be more accurate than any other possible explanations. In other words, a "scientific theory" is the closest thing to "the truth" science can offer. Of course, it doesn't mean it's 100% certain- if some new event arises and the model cannot explain it, we'll have to look for a new one or make changes. But, with all the info we humans have available as of today, the Big Bang Theory is not a random idea some guy had that may or may not work- but rather, the best explanation to the origin of the universe mankind has been able to find. Therefore, all those other "great theories" are not actually theories but rather just hypothesis that, when tested, have fared worse than the BB.
    Ah, yes. I probably should clear up my text in that a little bit more. My meaning of that was rather that the big bang is a scientific theory, while the others are just theories. My bad.
     

    Zehn

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  • > Implying that historical reproduction rates have always been as high as they are nowadays, which is a huge "did not do the research" in the field of history of human civilization.
    No the calculation I did was with the reproduction rate during the world war. So very low. And there would still be a number representing much more humans that there are.
     
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    Nah

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    No the calculation I did was with the reproduction rate during the world war. So very low. And there would still be a number representing much more humans that there are.
    And....what formula exactly did you use for this calculation? And we're still waiting for this research of yours you mentioned earlier.
     

    BadPokemon

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  • Looks like I'm the minority here. :)

    I believe every word written in the Bible as it is influenced (and ultimately) written by the Holy Spirit (part if God). It was written by humans (physically of course).

    If you couldn't tell I'm Christian. Oh, and the Gospels are Matthew to John, not the whole Bible. :)

    And my beliefs are based on scientific fact, not ignorance. I have been researching (and still am) all the facts, and I still haven't found anything to disprove my beliefs.
     

    Tek

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  • There's a lot implied in that statement. "Believing in" the Christian Bible appears to mean all of the following things:


    • [* ] That the Bible contains laws, created and enforced by a Divine entity, which we must obey at our own peril. Furthermore, the laws are indisputable unchanging
    • That the Bible contains an accurate historical account of humankind and the Earth
    • That the Bible is the only book which contains the true laws and true history.
    • And most importantly, perhaps, that you agree with all of the above because the Entity who passed on this information has confirmed said information is correct and accurate.

    Now the first point, about Divine law, doesn't lend itself well to rational analysis. But rest of those points can and should be analyzed rationally. As I like to say, you don't rely on faith alone to build a house properly. How much more important are matters of the soul?

    From a rational standpoint, it's very clear that we have much better sources of historical information than the Christian Bible. Which leads us to several conclusions; perhaps God is wrong sometimes, perhaps the Bible isn't infallible, perhaps the Bible is metaphorical and not literal, or perhaps God doesn't exist at all.

    And I think that it is eventually unhealthy for Christians to always resist asking these questions. I think the Mystery pulls and pushes us to evolve.

    So I guess the short answer would be "No, not in the same way you believe."

    As a Christian, I feel it is more important to be awake and aware to the present than to view the world through the same lens as our ancestors. The Biblical story shows Jesus rejecting the part of his Jewish faith that he knew were outdated or unloving and cruel. He also recognized that new understanding will come, saying "I have more to teach you, but you cannot bear it now."

    In other words, the man and the symbol and the presence that I aspire to know and emulate recognized the Spirit's call to evolve.
     

    £

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  • And....what formula exactly did you use for this calculation? And we're still waiting for this research of yours you mentioned earlier.

    Like any mathematical model, it's until you consider every single thing that you see how accurate it really is. I have a feeling considerations such as every war and pandemic where the total number of humans killed will be overlooked. I wouldn't claim to know every last war or pandemic or even factor for deaths since humanity started and I'm doubtful this research from Sir "alot" will shed light on it.

    That said, I'm looking forward to what they come up with. Expecting it to be numbers with no cited evidence and a ton of fallacious statements but I'll still hold on for the grand reveal with bated breath.
     
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  • I dont belive in the Bible.
    But it depends on how you view the text of it.

    The story about Adam and Eve for example. Sounds like a fairy tale for kids to me unless I am supposed to interrperet it somehow in a different way . But if I look at it litterly. It seems not possible to me.
     

    Corvus of the Black Night

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  • The bible contains some beautiful prose and many passages about morality, but the bible is not written by God and it does not portray a historical view of the previous 2,000 years. A work of parable and obvious metaphors, but little more than that.
    So just because it wasn't literally written by a god, that it doesn't have any value? Because it's a parable and has metaphors, it doesn't have any truth? This is a really ignorant statement.

    It's true that the bible in its current state was, without a doubt, not written by a god, because of its multiple translation differences that occurred time after time again. And even with that, it is unlikely that the original text was written by God literally, and therefore interpreted by human beings. Even with that taken into account, it is unlikely that the origin of that word is God itself because of the fact that such ideas came forth from that culture, and descended orally for hundreds of years from an unknown source. But "God's Word" does not literally mean that God had to write the words. It can also mean that they are the ideas behind a benevolent being's way of life. It can even mean that God is within ourselves and they are not a word of someone talking down to us as a dominant force but rather a suggestion from inside.

    But such a claim does nothing to actually devalue any religious text whatsoever. Text does not need to be taken literally to have value. It doesn't need to be written by God literally to be believed.

    This is a major problem that I have with many atheistic arguments against religion in of itself. The same argument could be composed against science - for example, bosons, leptons and the like were not directly responsible for writing scientific papers about their existence, interactions and explanation for various phenomena. The world of quantum physics is governed by extremely difficult mathematics which is most certainly inaccessible to the general public due to its difficult nature. Even physicists themselves find the idea confounding, and thus relying on the idea of "common sense" for these sorts of things is really ultimately useless. What use does the concepts of quantum mechanics have if they're not literally written by the particles themselves? What use do these ideas have if they still do not reflect the truth of questions still not understood by science, such as the properties of "quark matter" or what happens in a black hole?

    The answer to these questions is that science answers questions with algorithms that can be tested again and again. But science cannot answer philosophical questions. Just because science can answer things in the natural world doesn't mean that it disproves the idea of a supernatural one. Not only this, but it isn't science's purpose to understand things beyond our natural world. Physics won't answer the questions of why, as it is only built to answer the questions of how.

    It is true that the Bible claims that physical things have happened in the natural world, and these claims can be tested. These claims have been tested many times and are almost always false (those that aren't usually reflect a specific event, which can be checked with other cultures of that time). But one can also check all of the claims made in Harry Potter, such as the idea that there's magic, that there is a secret school for wizards, and that people can fly on broomsticks - all of which are false in our world. But Harry Potter doesn't exist to question the natural world. And nor does religion, really. Just like how quantum physics isn't focused on explaining the philosophical side of the human mind, the Bible isn't focused on explaining things in a literal sense.

    While some argue that religion is about "answering questions about the world around us" because of its origins as such, religion tackles a much more philosophical side of how our world works.

    A concept that's was created in satire of creationist arguments but is an interesting curiosity is the concept of "Last Thursdayism". Essentially, Last Thursdayism is the idea that everything was created last Thursday with an apparent age. Now, it may be true that this may be the case, and there would be no way to actually know whether or not the world was made on that day, so the best that we humans can do is work with what evidence that we have. This does not erase the possibility of apparent age, it simply describes that such a concept is unable to be verified.

    Another idea that is unable to be verified is the idea that God is not a literal man in the sky but rather the entity that is the foam of the universe. When the universe was created 13 billion years ago, it is noted that in order for our universe to be the way it was now, that basic values must have been set to specific values. What set those values? Perhaps we really are in a sort of "simulation" where everything was "created" by a creator? In that sense, wouldn't that creator be "God"? In our home in this simulation, we are blind to the external events outside. How are we to know any better? How are we supposed to reconcile this possibility of not knowing? This is just another example of trying to seek a philosophical truth from the general ideas presented in the Bible.

    Finally, the question rises in the idea of what the word "believe" means. Quite a few people (including yourself) seem to think that the world "believe" means "understanding something as a literal truth". But the reality is, that belief is a far wider concept than just that. Many Christians believe in God in a way that is not compatible with such a definition - to them, God exists in the form of an entity that is non literal, cannot be detected, but is there as a comfort pillow. Still others believe that God has no real intent towards humans and only exists as something within us all, and perhaps that looking for God for the answers means that we have to take power into our own hands. God does not have to be a being, so why act like he should?

    It's true that many fundamentalist Christians have taken the spotlight away from others, but its important to understand what others truly believe, and to not write off such beliefs before fully understanding them. Even after all of this, I'm not a Christian. I'm not religious at all. I'm best described as "agnostic" but more so as "not interested". However, this question really got me thinking...

    what is the truth when it's not literal?

    Perhaps this is what the thread was really about. And even if it's not, let's take away from a "yes no" answer and try to challenge ourselves about where our ideas can head? Perhaps we spend too much time thinking about how we're right that we forget to challenge our ideas and think of new possibilities.

    P.S. While the Bible should never be used as the equivalent of a history book, the Bible is still a very useful text to help understand the general ways of the Hebrew culture. It, along with precious artifacts from those locations, as well as ancient archaeology sites in the region, help paint a vivid picture of how their culture was and their values. It is therefore extremely useful in anthropology studies of that particular culture - the Bible is essentially the archaeologist's holy grail, because it contains so much useful information on that long-gone era of humanity - if only other cultures had scriptures and stories that lasted as long and in so much detail!
     
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    No I don't believe in the Bible. In the end it's a book, like many others, too. Well, it's a book containing more books, I should say. There weren't always printable mediums and a lot of books had to be rewritten by hand, which also means there's a chance actual truths could have been omitted by other "more convenient truths", considering it's a really important medium many people believed in and a lot of still do.

    I'm more of a sience fan. In the end religion and science just try to prove the same thing. It's just one uses pictures and the other uses mathematical formulas...
     

    CoffeeDrink

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  • The bible. Pfft. What's that?

    In all truth. This topic has been done to death, beaten, run over twice, shot in the kneecaps, drowned, set on fire, and strapped with so much C4 it'd make an ICBM blush. I am an atheist, and that should be the end of that.
     

    Candy

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  • I don't believe in the Bible, I believe in the Holy Qur'an! #raisemoslemawareness :v

    ...okay enough being religious and into the topic. Despite me being of another religion, I've read the bible before, so at least I can tell what the contents of the bible are.

    I've said that I don't believe it, not really because of religion, as most of the stories written within are quite simillar to the Qur'an, albeit some differences.

    But it's because, as everyone else says, it's just a book written by man. They said that it has been rewritten a lot of times, and verses may come and go whenever it does. And since it is written by man, for every language there is a bible in their own language, and as such the consistency of the contents is not to be trusted.

    At least, that's my two cents.
     
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  • So just because it wasn't literally written by a god, that it doesn't have any value? Because it's a parable and has metaphors, it doesn't have any truth? This is a really ignorant statement.

    People would probably take your debating a bit more seriously if you didn't automatically jump at a chance to use a straw man and blatantly twist what was said. So if anything's ignorant, it's that.

    I never made a claim about its value or lack thereof. I said the poetry, morality stories, and metaphors were nice in their own right, in terms of quality, and have their uses - Jesus said be nice to people and treat them as you would like to be treated. Nice little moral code to live by there.

    However, if you're going to read a work of metaphor and parable literally, things that are inherently suggestive and depend greatly on what your cultural values are or even what translation you're reading, then you're wasting everyone's time by blatantly and deliberatly misinterpreting what you're reading. Fundamentalism and a blind, literal reading of the book is as illogical as it is untrue. You're not going to get the right messages or draw the right conclusions that way. That, I believe doesn't have any value worth anyone's time.


    BadPokemon said:
    And my beliefs are based on scientific fact, not ignorance. I have been researching (and still am) all the facts, and I still haven't found anything to disprove my beliefs.

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