Do you believe in the Bible?

[Oryx]

My initial disagreement was merely that the "word of God" is straightforward and easy to understand and not subject to the interpretations of the various translators throughout the years. Saying "the Bible says X" as a fact is just going to be wrong no matter what verse you cite. I've been divorcing the Bible from religion in general because we're talking about religion; the "nice" thing about religion is that it claims that it knows more than anyone else what God really meant so you don't have to think too hard about it. But when you take the Bible on its own, it's been subject to so many subjective interpretations and translations that you can't make solid claims about what it's supposed to mean.

 

[Phantom1]

I am a Christian myself and do indeed believe in The Bible...it is as simple as that. I will not force my beliefs upon anyone but I will make a few points.

@obZen

- Homosexuality is considered an abomination and a sin in the eyes of God as various verses of The Bible state.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

As for your question about eating certain "unclean" foods this entry from Wikipedia about Peter's vision in Acts should shed some light on the issue.

"As the Book of Acts makes clear, Christians are not obligated to follow this holiness code. This is made clear in Peter's vision in Acts 10:15. Peter is told, 'What God has made clean, do not call common.' In other words, there is no kosher code for Christians. Christians are not concerned with eating kosher foods and avoiding all others. That part of the law is no longer binding, and Christians can enjoy shrimp and pork with no injury to conscience."

Right. I was gonna stay out of this. I really, really was. I seem to get involved in EVERY Bible discussion on site.

But I can't. So here I go:

With any actual research done on the Bible, you'll find it's actually quite indifferent on the subject of homosexuality.

Case.

Two verses from the Old Testament's law books.

Lev 18:22
Lev 20:13

The Leviticus passages in most translations forbid male homosexuality as a taboo, AKA a betrayal of Jewish identity; an offense (impurity) against the Jewish religion. "Uncleanness." No where does it mention female homosexuality, nor does it even mention homosexuality. It merely says if a man were to lay with a man as he would a woman. This leaves a lot for interpretation.

Ah, but we're looking at the Bible in its entirety, aren't we? Both Old AND New Testaments.

In the New Testament, Paul tells us that Christians are now beyond Jewish law, meaning they are no longer subject to the laws stated in the law books.

Galatians 3:10 - "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.'"

So if you force someone to follow the old law books, you are literally cursing them and yourself...

Galatians 3:13 - "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us."

One of the reasons Jesus died for humanity was so that he could free it from the laws set forth long before. By enforcing the laws you actually undermine everything your religion stands for, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Galatians 5:1 - "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

Law = slavery.

Why? Because if we subject others to law by which they have no control over, it is the same as slavery. (Proverbs 26:11; II Peter 2:22)

Galatians 5:18 - "If you are led by the Holy Spirit, you are not under law."

In short, the New Testament overrides all law books. Your argument is literally invalid.

Now for your other points:

I Corinthians 6:9

Find me one person who is not guilty of any sin, let them cast the first stone... who said that or something like it, oh, right Jesus did.

Mistranslations are all over in the Bible. Things taken from ancient languages, edited over and over again and misconstrued by the ideals of the translators. In this case the original Greek text reads 'malakoi arsenokoitai'. The first word means soft; the meaning of the second word has been lost. It was once used to refer to a male temple prostitute in the Old Testament. The early Church interpreted the phrase as referring to people of soft morals; i.e. unethical. From the time of Martin Luther, it was interpreted as referring to masturbation. More recently, it has been translated as referring to homosexuals . Each translator seems to take whatever activity that their society particularly disapproves of and use it in this verse. (I can give more on this if you want)

Rom. 1:26-28.

Sigh. This one. I hate this one.

Thing is, if you use this as an argument against homosexuality, you're using the quote wrong.

Romans 1&2 is one big lecture. Seriously. It's a constantly continuing lecture. Not a lot of little lectures, and if you take it out of context you're missing the point of it.

The point? You're not supposed to judge each other. Read both Romans 1 & 2 and you'll see what I mean. It's the reason the new Pope issued that new quote saying the same thing, we are not to judge.

People who have not read the Bible cover to cover should not pick out verses and expect to win an argument with someone who has. Many times.

EDIT: Sorry about multiple edits/notifications, my computer is messing up a bit.

 

[ninJAS]

I have read The Bible thank you very much so before acusing me of simply picking out specific verses on the issue while not reading the book in it's entirety is a false accusation. As I have already stated everyone can interpret things in their own way I was just giving my thoughts on the topic. I also am not arguing in the slightest. This is a discussion thread which is all I am doing...discussing the topic and giving my opinion on a question asked previously and my reasonings behind it.

 

[Phantom1]

If you had, then you would not have used those verses.

 

[GreenFlame]

I do not believe the Bible can be true, nor can any religion. People seem to act like the Bible/religion is the only way a person can have morals. They claim that while the Bible may not be literally true, it gives us metaphors, as if mankind would otherwise have no morals without the Bible.

The Bible discredits itself, for example with the story about Jonah surviving inside the stomach of a whale. This is impossible, and the Bible also contains many other contradictions.

I believe God does not exist. Try and prove to me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. You cannot, just as I cannot prove to a christian that God does not exist because there are no truly verifiable signs of his lack of existence, but neither are there any signs of his existence.

 

[obZen]

Every single person will have their own interpretation on anything they read. It is just human nature. I am not saying you are wrong and I'm not trying to force the issue that I am right I am simply stating my interpretations and beliefs on the subject.

I am sure that certain areas of The Bible has been changed slightly as it has been translated over and over again but the meaning is still there.

I am sorry I could find Hebrew that was "ancient enough" for your liking and I never said that the link I provided was a guaranteed accurate translation...it was just the only thing I could find with any shred of Hebrew text with it.

But see, this is exactly why I don't think the Bible is any way by which to live
The fact that it can be twisted and (mis)interpreted shows that the whole premise of Biblical religion is ridiculous
How can you have thousands of Christian religions? Because everyone's reading the same book but getting different messages.
Like I said before, people pick and choose from this book to support their beliefs, which were obtained before they read the Bible.

This is all very backwards. If I tell you how to make a pizza, I shouldn't see much variation. There's far too much variation in Christianity.

Plus, the Bible's been translated over and over again to the point that too much has been lost.
Also, almost everyone reads some variation of the King James Bible, which was overseen by King James.
Let's not forget the Roman Catholic Bible, and its altered version of the Commandments

Lastly, there were lost books of the Bible, which appear important to me.

 

[Phantom1]

Lastly, there were lost books of the Bible, which appear important to me.

Oh there are many more lost books than that, over a hundred, actually. Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Mary, soso many.

A particular favorite of mine is the Gospel of Judas.

Yeah, that Judas. It's great because research and analysis shows that Jesus had a... very close... relationship with Judas.

Very close, some even claim that Jesus had relations with him. Yep. This book has hidden themes that might lead to the truth of Jesus being homosexual.

Imagine if that got out, by the way folks, Jesus was gay.

It paints Judas as a victim and a hero, not a villain. It's a very interesting change from the other Gospels. According to the Gospel of Judas, Jesus arranged his own death and forced Judas to have him arrested. Judas didn't want to, but he loved Jesus so much, and believed in him so much that he did so, even though he really didn't want to. In the end he's the ENTIRE REASON for the Passion, and should be considered one of the most loyal and one of the most important figures in Christianity.

Instead, he's a evil man condemned forever. Pretty sucky isn't it? ha, Imagine if this was real and they had actually taken out the only book that had the truth.

Most books were removed during the Protestant Reformation, though many were never even included or were excluded by the church long before that.

It just amazes me how anyone can believe in the Bible at all with that knowledge. Yep, book written by god, edited to all fluff by humans. Oh, god wrote this, but I don't like that chapter, let's take it out.

Because the word of god isn't holy or anything. Sheesh.

I suggest watching this.

 

[stp]

Not particularly.

I was raised Jewish and had a Bar Mitzvah, but I still don't really believe in the Old Testament.

I'd say at this point I'm agnostic, although I do still take part in Jewish holidays.

 

[sludgeslurpee]

No, I don't particularly believe in the bible. I used to, and I still think it's a good book for looking at the conditions and stuff at the time it was written. But no, I don't believe in it.

 

[zakisrage]

No. I believe in the Koran. (Still, I'm not a literalist. I think the Koran is open to interpretation.)

 

[Ice1]

I love the mythology behind the bible! Although, mostly the old testament, and that's mainly jewish.

I do not however believe in it. I'll start believing when Jesus returns.

 

[Percy]

I love the mythology behind the bible! Although, mostly the old testament, and that's mainly jewish.

I do not however believe in it. I'll start believing when Jesus returns.

Well, that's why its divided...
That's why there's an Old Testament & New Testament

You can think it like this:
The Old Testament is for the Jews, don't get me wrong, but some of the laws there can be followed by modern people, like the Ten Commandments of God. Actually, God made 600+ laws for Israel only.

Actually, you can research about the time where Moses, by the power of God, parted the Red Sea...and you'll see some proofs that the event has truly happened. Now, the New Testament is for Gentiles(not an Israelite). In this testament, Jesus said that we can believe on Him so that we will go to Heaven.

And, let me tell you...
Yes, its absolutely true that Jesus Christ will return to the planet Earth (with a shout and the voice of the archangels), and that will be called the 2nd Coming of Christ.

Now, let me explain, in the Old Testament the years in there, starting from Moses is called the Age of Law. When Jesus Christ was born into the world, He preached, and He preached continually, until when Judas Iscariot betrayed Him, and sold Him for 30 pieces of silver (Judas committed suicide later on, because of guilt). Later on, Jesus was crucified.

Before He died, He shouted, "It is finished!" and gave up the ghost.

Now, after He shouted that, the curtains seperating the holy place was torn. This act was announced as the coming of the new age, The Age of Grace. You know the meaning of grace, right? Now, we, Gentiles, in the Age of Law was nothing in the sight of God. In the Age of Grace, God had mercy on us and gave us a chance on resisting the flames of Hell. On Ephesians 2:8, 9, the verse said "For by grace are ye saved through faith, not of yourselves it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast." Yes, not by works. It is stated in Isaiah that, our good works are like "ragged rags" on the sight of God. On the Age of Law, God was called the LORD, now, in the Age of Grace, He's called, The Saviour.

But, I'm sorry to say, that when Jesus will once again come to Earth, He will no longer be a Saviour, He will be called, The Judge. If you wanna know why, read the Book of Revelation.

 

[Captain Barnacle]

Mainly because I'm atheist. So I don't believe in the Bible or any other holy book.

 

[Ice1]

Well, that's why its divided...
That's why there's an Old Testament & New Testament

You can think it like this:
The Old Testament is for the Jews, don't get me wrong, but some of the laws there can be followed by modern people, like the Ten Commandments of God. Actually, God made 600+ laws for Israel only.

Actually, you can research about the time where Moses, by the power of God, parted the Red Sea...and you'll see some proofs that the event has truly happened. Now, the New Testament is for Gentiles(not an Israelite). In this testament, Jesus said that we can believe on Him so that we will go to Heaven.

And, let me tell you...
Yes, its absolutely true that Jesus Christ will return to the planet Earth (with a shout and the voice of the archangels), and that will be called the 2nd Coming of Christ.

Now, let me explain, in the Old Testament the years in there, starting from Moses is called the Age of Law. When Jesus Christ was born into the world, He preached, and He preached continually, until when Judas Iscariot betrayed Him, and sold Him for 30 pieces of silver (Judas committed suicide later on, because of guilt). Later on, Jesus was crucified.

Before He died, He shouted, "It is finished!" and gave up the ghost.

Now, after He shouted that, the curtains seperating the holy place was torn. This act was announced as the coming of the new age, The Age of Grace. You know the meaning of grace, right? Now, we, Gentiles, in the Age of Law was nothing in the sight of God. In the Age of Grace, God had mercy on us and gave us a chance on resisting the flames of Hell. On Ephesians 2:8, 9, the verse said "For by grace are ye saved through faith, not of yourselves it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast." Yes, not by works. It is stated in Isaiah that, our good works are like "ragged rags" on the sight of God. On the Age of Law, God was called the LORD, now, in the Age of Grace, He's called, The Saviour.

But, I'm sorry to say, that when Jesus will once again come to Earth, He will no longer be a Saviour, He will be called, The Judge. If you wanna know why, read the Book of Revelation.

I know, I read it, haha. Although it was the childrens bible, and a while ago. I'm borrowing one from a niece of mine, who's a theologist, and I'm starting on that. I know how the division between old and new testament works. I also know how the second coming works. I just don't believe in it. The last statement was a joke, as in, if catholics get zapped up to heaven and Jesus is back on eart, then I'll start thinking: "Hmm, maybe this God-dude does exist."

 

[Sopheria]

I don't believe it's an infallible book that's correct about everything, but likewise I also don't think it's wrong about everything. I just look at it like any other book, right about some things, wrong about others. I think that's also a reflection of the fact that it was written by a lot of different people over a large span of time. Some of them had some good things to say, some of them didn't. I feel the same thing about other holy books of other religions--just because it's a religious holy book, doesn't mean it's right about everything.

 

[Timbjerr]

I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and currently label myself as a Pandeist...that is to say that the sentience one would traditionally refer to as God is one with the universe itself and far too preoccupied with matters of keeping the universe in balance to care about our piddly little planet. That being said, I believe the bible is an important document to study as long as one takes into account the historical context the books were written in.

For example, the passages in Leviticus that put a ban on homosexuality and eating seafood (and allow for them to be punishable by stoning) are little more than the system of laws made by the Hebrew people after fleeing Egypt and were intended to keep their population growth healthy (the Hebrews were a relatively insignificant ethnic group within the middle east until the Romans entered the scene and having homosexual relations among their ranks would inhibit their ability to spread).

Once you can gleam the things that are historically obsolete out of the bible, the morals and life lessons that are still relevant in today's world will stand out more.

 

[ShieldWolf27]

I do. I've dealt with loss, but I've seen miracles happen before my eyes. I'm a believer in the bible, a believer in Christ, and I await the day he returns.