Serena

[Kid Sonic]

He's prone to do reckless things without really thinking about them.

Only because the writers blatantly set him up and portray him that way. They practically give Ash no credit in his grown as a character in the long tenure of this anime.

And thanks for bringing my hopes for Serena down, by mentioning that she has given Ash at least one negative reaction towards his character (and we STILL have the rest of Kalos to sit through until they announce Gen 7, so they will likely shoehorn more of these).

Even If Serena does show irritation , She does it too Subtly.

Anything shown is this anime is any but subtle. In fact, it's far from it. Take every single gag in AG for example. The most subtle we got in the regular anime was Pikachu's conversation with Caterpie. Oh, and what looked Ash's father in DP.

Haruka, Hikari, and Iris didn't need to act like Kasumi did, and neither should Serena.

Iris had gotten the "foot-in-mouth"/"lack-of-respect"/"little credit" down pat in her own way, to the point where her character and reason came off as a complete joke.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Only because the writers blatantly set him up and portray him that way. They practically give Ash no credit in his grown as a character in the long tenure of this anime.

And thanks for bringing my hopes for Serena down, by mentioning that she has given Ash at least one negative reaction towards his character (and we STILL have the rest of Kalos to sit through until they announce Gen 7, so they will likely shoehorn more of these).

To be fair, DP and Johto did have Ash advancing in rank, beating his rivals, and even in the case of Johto losing very gracefully compared to the previous region, so they did give some credit (heck, DP even noted that Sinnoh was the first time Ash even got to Top 4 to emphasize this), so I wouldn't necessarily say he got no credit in terms of growth. Besides, he wasn't shown to be terrible in AG (well, save for the Hoenn league where he stayed at Top 8), either, and even in XY from what I've read (he was certainly better treated than in BW, I'll give you that much, and BW Ash made even Indigo Ash seem like he knew what he was doing.).

As far as your claim about waiting until Gen 7, that's even assuming we even get a Gen 7, since for all we know, they may just decide to end the anime franchise here, either willingly or otherwise have it prematurely end there thanks to karma from Best Wishes and other mistakes the writers made catching up.

Personally, were I in your position and had your rationale, I'd hate all of the characters in the show barring possibly Ritchie (who ironically is hated precisely because he was too kind to Ash, a Marty Stu more or less), since all of them do treat Ash like dirt on occasion, and besides, Ash himself has done some really bad and stupid things as well (like siccing a Caterpie against Pidgeotto and nearly getting it killed, then bragging about capturing Pidgeotto despite basically stupidly placing it in grave danger. Even you have to admit, Ash definitely deserved being read the riot act from Misty in that instance), or his very cruel prank to Misty, Brock and Pikachu regarding "becoming a bit of a ghost myself" in the beginning of the Tower of Terror. To be honest, I'm actually quite surprised you seem to like Ash despite his blatantly violating your impossibly high standards of what a character should be to be likeable in your eyes.

Anything shown is this anime is any but subtle. In fact, it's far from it. Take every single gag in AG for example.

Have to agree with you there, especially the bit where May was all-but-shown to have stripped in public at one point (yes, she actually stripped down to her birthday suit, in public, and put on a bathing suit offscreen, based on Max's reaction when she did it), or Brock and Max looking at May's butt in a far too obvious manner.

 

[Aquacorde]

Have to agree with you there, especially the bit where May was all-but-shown to have stripped in public at one point (yes, she actually stripped down to her birthday suit, in public, and put on a bathing suit offscreen, based on Max's reaction when she did it), or Brock and Max looking at May's butt in a far too obvious manner.

Even though everything on this page is like, wayyyy off topic, I would love to know what episode you claim this happened in lmao

as for serena i think it took her a lot longer to find something she was interested in but hey i identify with that? people aint know what they wanna do for a long time and it's fine not to have a goal for a while until you find something right for you. it seems like she's goign to be getting more non-Ash oriented development soon so hey a++

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Well, as of the most recent episode in Japan, Serena now has two Pokémon, so we can at least scratch off not having any Pokémon beyond her starter. That being said, she still will need to capture some more Pokémon.

 

[alisaie]

Do we really have to say 'she needs to capture more Pokemon' right after she caught one, like, for real? Cilan and Iris only had three each and that was perfectly okay with me so if that becomes a case with Serena I'll be fine with that.

( That said don't get me started on how much Best Wishes suck I don't wanna hear it. At all. Keep it to yourself please. ♥ )

Spoiler:

That said, the Serena episode is a push in the right direction. No mention Ash coming from her really as her whole focus was that Pancham. Thank god. I was super happy of her reason for catching it. It wasn't to impress anyone but because she was impressed by Pancham and how much it enjoys performances.

 

[Wobbu]

Idk, maybe Serena will be the first character to pull away from the cliches of being the main female character. There's no solid evidence that she wants to be a Trainer of any sorts (battling, coordinating, type mastering, etc.) but maybe something new and different -- something that doesn't necessitate the requirement of catching a lot of Pokémon.

The amount of Pokémon someone owns shouldn't be the factor that ranks their characterization (not solely, anyways). Quality is better than quantity in my opinion, and if the things that Sora mentioned in the spoiler tags persist throughout the rest of the series, them I have high hopes for the future of the series.

 

[Lizardo]

Yeah, while it's likely she'll catch at least one more Pokémon at some point, I would prefer seeing the two Serena already has be developed over her catching a bunch and not doing much with most of them. Serena isn't doing Gyms like Satoshi is, so it's not as if she needs a full team.

I've only seen the pictures of the latest episode, but it's really interesting how in the space of only seven episodes Serena is on track to becoming the quartet's most compelling member. I don't like that it took the writers forty episodes to get here, and I'm still skeptical that the TriPokalon (?) concept is going to be something I'll really enjoy, but I finally have another character working towards a goal. That's something that can only benefit Serena, and XY as a whole. Now, if they'd only do something to make Satoshi's journey more interesting...

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Idk, maybe Serena will be the first character to pull away from the cliches of being the main female character. There's no solid evidence that she wants to be a Trainer of any sorts (battling, coordinating, type mastering, etc.) but maybe something new and different -- something that doesn't necessitate the requirement of catching a lot of Pokémon.

The amount of Pokémon someone owns shouldn't be the factor that ranks their characterization (not solely, anyways). Quality is better than quantity in my opinion, and if the things that Sora mentioned in the spoiler tags persist throughout the rest of the series, them I have high hopes for the future of the series.

As long as she actually does her goal, I'll be fine with her not being a trainer. One of my biggest gripes with Brock is that he never did his Breeder goal outside of the Suzie-related episodes and possibly the Stantler episode. And Johto was even worse since they actually introduced the breeding mechanic into the games at that point.

 

[Kid Sonic]

To be fair, DP and Johto did have Ash advancing in rank, beating his rivals, and even in the case of Johto losing very gracefully compared to the previous region, so they did give some credit (heck, DP even noted that Sinnoh was the first time Ash even got to Top 4 to emphasize this), so I wouldn't necessarily say he got no credit in terms of growth. Besides, he wasn't shown to be terrible in AG (well, save for the Hoenn league where he stayed at Top 8), either, and even in XY from what I've read (he was certainly better treated than in BW, I'll give you that much, and BW Ash made even Indigo Ash seem like he knew what he was doing.).

As far as your claim about waiting until Gen 7, that's even assuming we even get a Gen 7, since for all we know, they may just decide to end the anime franchise here, either willingly or otherwise have it prematurely end there thanks to karma from Best Wishes and other mistakes the writers made catching up.

Personally, were I in your position and had your rationale, I'd hate all of the characters in the show barring possibly Ritchie (who ironically is hated precisely because he was too kind to Ash, a Marty Stu more or less), since all of them do treat Ash like dirt on occasion, and besides, Ash himself has done some really bad and stupid things as well (like siccing a Caterpie against Pidgeotto and nearly getting it killed, then bragging about capturing Pidgeotto despite basically stupidly placing it in grave danger. Even you have to admit, Ash definitely deserved being read the riot act from Misty in that instance), or his very cruel prank to Misty, Brock and Pikachu regarding "becoming a bit of a ghost myself" in the beginning of the Tower of Terror. To be honest, I'm actually quite surprised you seem to like Ash despite his blatantly violating your impossibly high standards of what a character should be to be likeable in your eyes.



Have to agree with you there, especially the bit where May was all-but-shown to have stripped in public at one point (yes, she actually stripped down to her birthday suit, in public, and put on a bathing suit offscreen, based on Max's reaction when she did it), or Brock and Max looking at May's butt in a far too obvious manner.

Ash is a good and caring Pokemon Trainer at heart (unlike Paul or Damian). And besides, he the main character, I have to root for him (because we can't go on a Pokemon journey ourselves). Everything he does reflects on the show's worth. Besides, those "terrible examples" were just N00b Ash from week 1, and he has evolved way past those specific mistakes. But you can't help but be heavily put off by Misty's *****y tone of voice and gigantic in-your-face tantrum. Takes away all the fun in a series about collecting unique pocket monsters that you never heard of. Ash for the whole ghost prank (which was once again a minor schtick-of-the-day), Misty and Brock were barely supportive friends at that point, so can't you blame him. That was also one episode after Misty and Brock disowned any affiliation with, for not knowing how to bend spoons with his mind.

Either way, NONE of these reasons are justifiable enough for Ash to be suck with Misty for the rest of his days (and her *****-ness that comes with out), so find better examples. Nowadays, Ash would just be a doormat to Misty (if she tried that same formula on him), considering how the writers brought down and simplified his character, to a passive, good-notion, befriend-anyone sap, fit for preschoolers. Heck, the series is hardly about Ash anymore, and more about a protagonist and his "friends" taking a bunch a preschoolers on an interactive fun adventure full of corny gags, funny-cute-kooky pokemon, action/plot at the expense of hardly evil Team Cornball/TRio, and the typical win or lose moral and friends is important message at the end of the day.

What does Ash even have to prove anymore? Oh, and if the writers did bring Misty back, it wouldn't be for Ash, it would be so millions of girls worldwide can have yet another bad role-model, who teaches girl to be loud and physically/verbally abusive for little reason.

Also, we don't even need Misty. We already have one main character giving another main character a hard time, and that's Clemont vs Bonnie. Brock and Cilan were never as strict as he is. So Clemont is pretty much in a way: Boy Misty. A brother gives his younger sister flak, instead of the main boy getting flak from a random-girl-who-persistently-follows-him-for-her-own-ends. Two characters doing this to separate character is just overload (oh, and Team Rocket still get blasted off again)!

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Ash is a good and caring Pokemon Trainer at heart (unlike Paul or Damian). And besides, he the main character, I have to root for him (because we can't go on a Pokemon journey ourselves). Everything he does reflects on the show's worth. Besides, those "terrible examples" were just N00b Ash from week 1, and he has evolved way past those specific mistakes. But you can't help but be heavily put off by Misty's *****y tone of voice and gigantic in-your-face tantrum. Takes away all the fun in a series about collecting unique pocket monsters that you never heard of. Ash for the whole ghost prank (which was once again a minor schtick-of-the-day), Misty and Brock were barely supportive friends at that point, so can't you blame him. That was also one episode after Misty and Brock disowned any affiliation with, for not knowing how to bend spoons with his mind.

Either way, NONE of these reasons are justifiable enough for Ash to be suck with Misty for the rest of his days (and her *****-ness that comes with out), so find better examples. Nowadays, Ash would just be a doormat to Misty (if she tried that same formula on him), considering how the writers brought down and simplified his character, to a passive, good-notion, befriend-anyone sap, fit for preschoolers. Heck, the series is hardly about Ash anymore, and more about a protagonist and his "friends" taking a bunch a preschoolers on an interactive fun adventure full of corny gags, funny-cute-kooky pokemon, action/plot at the expense of hardly evil Team Cornball/TRio, and the typical win or lose moral and friends is important message at the end of the day.

What does Ash even have to prove anymore? Oh, and if the writers did bring Misty back, it wouldn't be for Ash, it would be so millions of girls worldwide can have yet another bad role-model, who teaches girl to be loud and physically/verbally abusive for little reason.

I'll try to keep it short and sweet to avoid getting off topic (remember, this is about Serena), but 1. Even for a newbie, it should have been fairly obvious what would happen with birds and bugs if they got together. And yes, she definitely was in the right for telling him off that instance. If she sang praises for him and his frankly stupid action with Caterpie (not just ignorant, but genuinely stupid. Honestly, even if I were a rookie, it would be common sense to not use a Caterpie against something that would most likely eat it for breakfast and thus I would know full well not to use it, and instead choose Pikachu for the battle.), that would be even worse.

And besides, having them constantly singing praises for Ash would in fact be worse. Don't forget, the main villain Gaston from Beauty and the Beast had everyone singing praises for him, them never saying no to him or talking him down or anything like that. The only one who did actually do any of that was Belle (and that reminds me, what she did to him, jerk or not, was actually worse than what Misty did, as she never said no to him before throwing Gaston into the mud pond, and actually took amusement in his falling into mud), is ultimately what resulted in him becoming a huge jerk and later the main villain. Do you really think that's a good idea at all, especially when that's exactly what would turn out as a result? Besides, there were plenty of times Misty and Brock actually supported Ash (like Cinnabar Gym, and heck, Pewter Gym where Misty actually offered to help him out), why do you constantly ignore those anyways. Oh, and BTW, Misty definitely doesn't abuse Ash much anymore, and honestly, her temper was actually arctic compared to Naru Narusegawa, for example or Jessie even. Even if she doesn't return to the series, she really should at least actually be allowed to pursue her dreams rather than be cooped up in a Gym. Not to mention Misty and Brock were caring trainers at heart as well (or have you not been paying attention to their good-hearted actions in several episodes).

2. Playing that kind of prank was actually extremely mean-spirited especially considering what they were about to do and what had just happened earlier, it doesn't matter his reasons (and BTW, had Misty or Brock done what Ash did that time, guess what, I wouldn't have any sympathy for any of them either).

One last thing, technically, he isn't the main character of the games (First Gen and possibly FireRed/LeafGreen? Possibly, but definitely not Generations 2, most of 3, 4, 5, or 6), and in fact you can do the Pokémon journey yourself. Just take out a Gameboy/Gameboy Color/GBA/DS/3DS, start playing a Pokémon game of the Core regions, and you're all set to go on a Pokémon journey yourself, or at least the closest to doing so in real life.

As far as the topic, the only things left is making sure Serena has actual development (not to mention actually given something that proves she isn't a Hina), that she actually gets a goal, and that she at the very least trains the Pokémon she has.

 

[Kid Sonic]

I'll try to keep it short and sweet to avoid getting off topic (remember, this is about Serena), but 1. Even for a newbie, it should have been fairly obvious what would happen with birds and bugs if they got together. And yes, she definitely was in the right for telling him off that instance. If she sang praises for him and his frankly stupid action with Caterpie (not just ignorant, but genuinely stupid. Honestly, even if I were a rookie, it would be common sense to not use a Caterpie against something that would most likely eat it for breakfast and thus I would know full well not to use it, and instead choose Pikachu for the battle.), that would be even worse.

And besides, having them constantly singing praises for Ash would in fact be worse. Don't forget, the main villain Gaston from Beauty and the Beast had everyone singing praises for him, them never saying no to him or talking him down or anything like that. The only one who did actually do any of that was Belle (and that reminds me, what she did to him, jerk or not, was actually worse than what Misty did, as she never said no to him before throwing Gaston into the mud pond, and actually took amusement in his falling into mud), is ultimately what resulted in him becoming a huge jerk and later the main villain. Do you really think that's a good idea at all, especially when that's exactly what would turn out as a result? Besides, there were plenty of times Misty and Brock actually supported Ash (like Cinnabar Gym, and heck, Pewter Gym where Misty actually offered to help him out), why do you constantly ignore those anyways. Oh, and BTW, Misty definitely doesn't abuse Ash much anymore, and honestly, her temper was actually arctic compared to Naru Narusegawa, for example or Jessie even. Even if she doesn't return to the series, she really should at least actually be allowed to pursue her dreams rather than be cooped up in a Gym. Not to mention Misty and Brock were caring trainers at heart as well (or have you not been paying attention to their good-hearted actions in several episodes).

2. Playing that kind of prank was actually extremely mean-spirited especially considering what they were about to do and what had just happened earlier, it doesn't matter his reasons (and BTW, had Misty or Brock done what Ash did that time, guess what, I wouldn't have any sympathy for any of them either).

One last thing, technically, he isn't the main character of the games (First Gen and possibly FireRed/LeafGreen? Possibly, but definitely not Generations 2, most of 3, 4, 5, or 6), and in fact you can do the Pokémon journey yourself. Just take out a Gameboy/Gameboy Color/GBA/DS/3DS, start playing a Pokémon game of the Core regions, and you're all set to go on a Pokémon journey yourself, or at least the closest to doing so in real life.

As far as the topic, the only things left is making sure Serena has actual development (not to mention actually given something that proves she isn't a Hina), that she actually gets a goal, and that she at the very least trains the Pokémon she has.

1. The anime is Ash's world, while the video games are just simulations done six times over. Ash actually lives among Pokemon.
2. Since you rather stay on topic than fully acknowledge my major key points, fine. I'll talk about Serena.

Serena:

1. Her characterization is fine the way it is and they should keep it that way.
2. She has no need for Pokemon contests.
3. Clemont is a pain enough, so she doesn't have to act ugly too.
4. Serena should never give Ash a hard time or act like Misty or Iris in any way whatsoever.
5. The writers should not set Ash up for Serena to give him a hard time.
6. Serena can have at least a minimum of three Pokemon.

That is all about Serena. Period.

 

[Garchomp]

^ remind me what you two are even arguing about and why. If its something about Misty still, you can take it to another thread...

 

[Kid Sonic]

^ remind me what you two are even arguing about and why. If its something about Misty still, you can take it to another thread...

It's about Serena not becoming Misty. But we're done here. I gave my two cents about Serena. But the writers will find some way to **** up her character too. To maintain Serena or save this series, we need a new line of writers who won't carry out past mistakes.

Done.

 

[alisaie]

Regardless of what happens not everyone is going to be happy. I'm always skeptical when people say 'we need new writers' because it's always 'are you sure? or are you just going to regret saying that when if they do get new writers'. And then there is always the opposite of things.

Anyways.

I was actually okay with the fact that it took 40ish episodes to really start developing Serena. Just like everyone else the first two gyms or so seemed to have been mostly setting up for what is happening nowwhich, in my opinion, is actually pretty brilliant. They were patient and didn't jump into abunch of development all at once. Sure, it may have been a wee bit slow but considering what Serena is going through I find it to befine. Hell, I haven't figured out what I want to do so 40 episodes is honestly nothing to me hahah. But it really lookslike she's starting to realize what she wants and taking steps to it and I really hope that they don't just throw itall at us at once because then what are they going to do (well.. after focusing on Clemont). What I don't want to see is the series becoming standstill because everyone is developed by episode 80 when this series is definitely goingto have at least 100+ episodes.

 

[Famon]

I could understand an opinion that says Serena doesn't bounce off any of the other members of the group in an entertaining way, but putting that solely down to the fact that Serena doesn't fulfill some role is kind of ridiculous. There's no rule out there that says a "Main girl" absolutely has to play the "straight man" to everyone.

What you said:





Not only is Kasumi the one character you've mentioned, but everything you want Serena to do are all things that only Kasumi would ever do. That would suggest that your ideal version of Serena is a character blatantly like Kasumi.

There's been nothing subtle about any occasion where Serena has been annoyed with her mother or Satoshi or whoever. I think what you're really looking for is the kind of over-the-top reaction Kasumi displayed in the earlier episodes of the franchise.

I'm not the biggest fan of Serena, either, but that doesn't so much have any to do with her characterization in and of itself but that the writers have only just started to do anything interesting with it. There's nothing that says she must be the "straight man" of the cast or that she needs to become more aggressive to be more entertaining. Serena's characterization is fine, it's what the writers will choose to do with it that matters.

Same could be said about Iris , Right !
That Iris's Characterization was fine because that what Writer Chose her to be ! It doesn't matter that Iris is less-liked female cast and Consider to be annoying by majority of Fans !!!
Iris characterization wasn't fine ! She had lot of potential to be one of the most popular pokegirl but her character was ruined because of the stupid choice Writer made .

Also , You talk as if every girl that have Violent outburst toward the Protagonist is like Misty !!!
There are many Popular female character that are Timid ,Shy & Passive like Serena but capable of having Violent Outburst toward the Protagonist Such as Mio (K-on) , Lillth (Trinity seven) , Mahiru (Working).
Actually thats what make them unique ! The ability of have Outburst despite their Timib nature.

And Seriously You think Serena exist is here to achieve her Dream ! Serena only exist to be a girl who accompany Ash until a new girl Replace her.
Now question is , Why Ash need a Girl to accompany him ?
Answer , To be an eye-candy that will make the show Funny & Interesting by having a Dynamic chemistry with the Protagonist .
And As You know , Her Chemistry with Ash Sucks ! Her Crush is the only thing that make her interesting .
However , The Most important thing is her Chemistry with Ash , Not her goal.
Iris had a Goal and that didn't do anything good. While Serena's Goal is nothing more the rip off of Pokemon Contest without the Battle .

Even if Serena Does become Irritated by Ash , She tries to express her irritation indirectly as if She afraid of expressing it directly . I think she shown her Direct Irritation at ''Diantha Episode''.
Even May started to express her Irritation directly Toward Ash Specially When ''Advence challenge'' Started. Or may be Before that.

Misty & Mitsumi (Pokemon DPA) didn't had a Goal But they had their role . That why they fit in Perfectly .
Pokemon really need a Straight-man and a lot of Funny Character since the ''Humor'' of this show has gotten so low. Honestly , Is this series really still written by the same people who wrote Original episode . The Style is so different as if its written by somebody else..

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

^Have to address this, because it's frankly becoming annoying.

Misty actually HAD a goal in the anime. Water Pokémon Master. And it as also hinted at as early as Kanto. Serena doesn't have a goal at all, at best possibly having the TriPokelon thing which isn't even solidly confirmed yet. Even May at least had Gym Battles before she decided to Pokémon Contests.

 

[Famon]

Thing needed to be done--

--Serena proved that she is capable of having Outburst and physical assault during the 1st XY episode.
Now , She need to start showing that part of herself like how May started to show her direct irritation toward Ash.

-- Make Serena appear with Different Bang . That would make her interesting.
For example , Look here-

Spoiler:

Her Bang is different here ! I wish Somebody could remove that stupid Bow over her head.

--Try to create a funny Playboy character who tried make Serena his 100 pray But his plan keep on failing Because of Serena's own oblivious nature.
At the End , He himself ended up falling in love with Serena.

-- Make Ash tease Serena !

--Make Serena point out the failure of Clemont's invention.

--Prove that Serena is capable of becoming furious toward Ash to the point that she herself could order Froko to use flamethrower on him.
May be , Ash can pull a prank to scare her , Clemont & Bonnie like EP-023 The Tower of Terror Where Ash scared Brock & Misty only to get shocked by Pikachu.

 

[Kid Sonic]

So do we also give her red hair or pink hair along with super-strength to go with that?

Or how about we replace her with Primeape.

 

[Splash]

.:I Have A Simple Question:.

Do you think Serena will leave after the XY series? If so why? Im not really following the XY series a lot but after watching a few episodes I happen to like Serena's shy character when talking to ash this also meant that her closeness to him is really far from being a couple. Do you think they'll be together until Ash becomes a great pokemon master?

 

[Hikamaru]

I'm not so sure about this given Ash's female companions tend to leave after their region's saga ends but Serena is so different to the other girls he's had given her backstory meeting Ash at a summer camp and the two are heavily shipped as a result.

But still, while I think she may move on after XY ends there could be a chance the writers may throw a curveball at us given new writers were recruited this series.