Serena

[Aquacorde]

1) ORAS!May was literally on screen for less than three minutes. However cute she was, she definitely showed much less personality than Serena.

2) Despite your constant complaining about Serena's current look, she does not in any way look like a 30yo woman. do you even know 30yo women

3) Serena honestly does a lot less fawning nowadays. It is not constant. She is doing her own thing. Besides, having a crush isn't bad. Nobody started berating Brock for his womanizing until like, AG. And that was over the top pretty much every ep.

 

[Kid Sonic]

I just hope AbilityShipping is still relevant/a viable option amongst fans, since AmourShipping is starting to thin out and succumb to the Pokemon anime's usual brand of writing.

To be blunt, Serena had a few flaws in episode 7, she hit Ash's hand in the Diancie movie, she seems quite annoyed that he doesn't remember her (can't you blame him for not remembering the latest female character avatar introduced five generations later), and now that she has a goal she's set on, like May and Dawn, she'll become so obsessed that she'll forgets Ash even matters.

If that's the case, I hope Ash deliberately skips one of her Pokemon Showcases, thinking that she's fine without him. And than the big truth comes out, in a sincere and heartfelt manner.

 

[Disolia]

Overall she's a cute character, but in my opinion her personality is quite lacking in depth and isn't very interesting.

 

[Z25]

Episode 862: Ash and Serena's First Date! The Vow Tree and the Present!
Episode 863: Aim to Become Kalos Queen! Serena's Grand Debut!!


Don't know if you know about these but these should to very interesting episodes about her that could develop her quite a lot.

 

[Lizardo]

The really interesting Serena episode coming up, IMHO, is XY053 where she and Saki get to clash over Serena's new goal and settle it with the Meecle race. Not that I expect the episode to wrap up in any way other than the two coming to an understanding by the end of it, and Serena will obviously continue to do the Tripokalon thing (as shown in the XY060 preview), but I don't remember a conflict like that in the anime before. Satoshi, Shigeru, Haruka, Hikari, etc. all had the support of their (grand)parents from the beginning. I just hope the writers don't cop out and show Saki to have been completely supportive of Serena all along, or something else along those lines that will render the entire episode meaningless. It really has potential to be a good one.

 

[Kid Sonic]

Serena is like a container of milk. Initially sweet, pure, wholesole, good for you, and good for making sweet pastries and other desserts. However, she also comes with a sell-by date, and I say that instead of expiration date because you can never tell when something as sweet as milk will curdle and go sour. Serena already starting these signs, and one of them came in the form of her slapping Ash's hand in the Diancie movie (Thanks for showing me that gif, Famon. Truly appreciate it. *sarcasm*). At that point, it was just another reminder that these are the same usual writers who brought Ash down to stupid in the first place, as well as the same ones who gave us Iris, Flambo Cilan, tons of scrappy rivals, and cost Ash the Vertress Conference. Also the same people who made May and Dawn barely tolerable, with their obsessions with contests and other girly things in tow. Either way, nothing has changed. But I guess I should've been tipped off about Serena's expiry date who she was annoyed that Ash didn't remember her (a new entry in the latest generation). And here I thought, while May and Dawn were so obsessed with their own goals that they forget that he matters (yet they travel with Ash to fulfill), Serena would be the one girl who would be a sweet enough fan of the underdog and try to help him be the best trainer he could be, without biting his head off. But now, Serena is just one of the girls (and Bonnie is too young to protest or even know what's going on. Clemont in his own parental-brotherly way would just tell her to shut up, keep quiet and stay put). But as Ash is concerned, "Traveling with friends is way more fun!", and would sugarcoat all of this by saying that his friends are unique and have there own personalities, strengths, and flaws. Meanwhile, Serena will become more and more assertive, that you forget she was ever meant for Ash, and is just Female Lead Traveling Companion #5

Too bad Ash will never be able to tell the difference. By Gen 7, he'll probably end up traveling with some overblown, shallow, violent, out-of-control, ladette, tsundere girl. And Gen 8 will be anyone's guess.

 

[Lizardo]

Your characterization of Serena is way off. She's hardly violent or quick-tempered, and has spent the virtually the entire show getting along just fine with Satoshi, Eureka, and Citron. Just watch XY037 to see what the writers consider to be her opposite personality.

I also disagree with the way you seem to think that Serena shouldn't get something to do that doesn't relate to Satoshi, or that Haruka and Hikari being Coordinators somehow meant they weren't good friends with him anyway. Characters should do more than support Satoshi or just be in the background for the entire show, and it's a great thing that Serena is finally getting a chance to do that. It makes her a more fun character to watch.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Your characterization of Serena is way off. She's hardly violent or quick-tempered, and has spent the virtually the entire show getting along just fine with Satoshi, Eureka, and Citron. Just watch XY037 to see what the writers consider to be her opposite personality.

I also disagree with the way you seem to think that Serena shouldn't get something to do that doesn't relate to Satoshi, or that Haruka and Hikari being Coordinators somehow meant they weren't good friends with him anyway. Characters should do more than support Satoshi or just be in the background for the entire show, and it's a great thing that Serena is finally getting a chance to do that. It makes her a more fun character to watch.

At least Dawn actually did acknowledge Ash as a friend, even crying a bit when she ended up having to separate from him in the end of DP (granted, it wasn't as emotional or reluctant as Misty in GCYL, but hey, can't have everything). May didn't, and seemed to go to Johto with zero hesitation, making it seem as though she didn't even value Ash as a friend (SPPf made that clear in their review thread for the episode,and even stated her departure was rushed, her just saying "goodbye" then taking off. From what I understand, the only one who actually seemed sad about leaving was Max).

 

[Lizardo]

At least Dawn actually did acknowledge Ash as a friend, even crying a bit when she ended up having to separate from him in the end of DP (granted, it wasn't as emotional or reluctant as Misty in GCYL, but hey, can't have everything). May didn't, and seemed to go to Johto with zero hesitation, making it seem as though she didn't even value Ash as a friend (SPPf made that clear in their review thread for the episode,and even stated her departure was rushed, her just saying "goodbye" then taking off. From what I understand, the only one who actually seemed sad about leaving was Max).

Most of this isn't really aimed at you, but I'm using this as a jumping point to add to my post above:

I don't see how anyone could watch DP all the way through and come away with the conclusion that Hikari "forgot Satoshi matters", whatever that's supposed to mean. That they were close friends is indisputable, and there are many moments one could pick from that demonstrate it. The sad shot of Satoshi when Hikari loses her second Contest in the Appeal Round and he notices her clenched fist, or the circus Hikari and her Pokémon put on for Satoshi and his following the first Satoshi-Shinji full battle. Or how in DP188, while Jun and Takeshi were talking about the advantage Shinji had, Hikari was the one who stated confidently that Satoshi would win. Just because Hikari had her own goal and storyline didn't take away from her friendship with Satoshi at all. In many cases, it even added to it.

The writers didn't lay things on as thickly with Satoshi and Haruka. But they traveled together for 192 episodes, the two of them supported each other's goals in the Gyms and Contests (well, most of the time...), and showed visible concern when the other was in trouble. When Haruka later gets to Sinnoh, she takes the opportunity to seek Satoshi and Takeshi out and even reminds Satoshi of the ribbon they shared, which they both kept with each other all that time. It's up to you exactly how close you want to envision them as being, but there's no question that they were friends regardless. All of the goodbye episodes are rushed to some degree, anyway. Some worse than others.

Another thing worth noting about both Haruka and Hikari is that Satoshi argued with, and annoyed, both quite frequently. Much, much, more so than anything with Serena. But that both were his friends and were referred to as being such multiple times throughout AG and DP is a fact. Friends argue, they get irritated with each other, they tease each other, and they even fight. So I don't get how Serena getting briefly (she's laughing along with him within seconds) frustrated at the fact that the boy she likes didn't remember her after she came to see him again, or keeping him from eating a cake meant for everyone makes her anywhere near as bad as how Kid Sonic believes she is. Or how it somehow invalidates how Serena clearly values Satoshi as a friend. There are many moments of that, too. XY037 in particular has one of my favorite moments between the two of them.

The same goes for Serena's new goal. Satoshi and Hikari show that you can actually do quite a bit with two characters pursuing their own goals, that goes beyond simply providing moral support from the sidelines. Pokémon trades and learning tactics from watching each other's battles, those were some of my favorite things coming out of DP and demonstrates that their journeys wouldn't have been the same if they hadn't met each other. XY can do this with Satoshi and Serena too, and it would do a lot to give a depth to their friendship that goes beyond the fact that Serena secretly has a crush on Satoshi. So, again, I disagree with the point Kid Sonic makes about Serena and her new goal.

 

[Kid Sonic]

Your characterization of Serena is way off. She's hardly violent or quick-tempered, and has spent the virtually the entire show getting along just fine with Satoshi, Eureka, and Citron. Just watch XY037 to see what the writers consider to be her opposite personality.

I also disagree with the way you seem to think that Serena shouldn't get something to do that doesn't relate to Satoshi, or that Haruka and Hikari being Coordinators somehow meant they weren't good friends with him anyway. Characters should do more than support Satoshi or just be in the background for the entire show, and it's a great thing that Serena is finally getting a chance to do that. It makes her a more fun character to watch.

How much of my post did you completely misinterpret. It's a pain for me because I don't even know where to begin or make myself clearer. It's like you got confused, but rather than ask for further clarity, you just assumed whatever you thought you knew. For starters, not once did I ever indicate that Serena had a temper, but the milk comparison however was dead on.

 

[Famon]

Serena is like a container of milk. Initially sweet, pure, wholesole, good for you, and good for making sweet pastries and other desserts. However, she also comes with a sell-by date, and I say that instead of expiration date because you can never tell when something as sweet as milk will curdle and go sour. Serena already starting these signs, and one of them came in the form of her slapping Ash's hand in the Diancie movie (Thanks for showing me that gif, Famon. Truly appreciate it. *sarcasm*). At that point, it was just another reminder that these are the same usual writers who brought Ash down to stupid in the first place, as well as the same ones who gave us Iris, Flambo Cilan, tons of scrappy rivals, and cost Ash the Vertress Conference. Also the same people who made May and Dawn barely tolerable, with their obsessions with contests and other girly things in tow. Either way, nothing has changed. But I guess I should've been tipped off about Serena's expiry date who she was annoyed that Ash didn't remember her (a new entry in the latest generation). And here I thought, while May and Dawn were so obsessed with their own goals that they forget that he matters (yet they travel with Ash to fulfill), Serena would be the one girl who would be a sweet enough fan of the underdog and try to help him be the best trainer he could be, without biting his head off. But now, Serena is just one of the girls (and Bonnie is too young to protest or even know what's going on. Clemont in his own parental-brotherly way would just tell her to shut up, keep quiet and stay put). But as Ash is concerned, "Traveling with friends is way more fun!", and would sugarcoat all of this by saying that his friends are unique and have there own personalities, strengths, and flaws. Meanwhile, Serena will become more and more assertive, that you forget she was ever meant for Ash, and is just Female Lead Traveling Companion #5

Iris sucked because Writer tried to make a ''Misty'' out her !
Iris would been a lot more popular if she was wild childish but smart like her --

Spoiler:

Jibrill (No game no life)

Misty was a ''Handler'' and Iris was a ''wild Girl'' . The two doesn't mix !
Iris was better off as a referring Character ! Her biggest misfortune that she was chosen as a Cast character.
As For Serena , If She act like Fangirl who never get irritated by Ash no matter what he do then that make her a Boring girl.

Ash doesn't need a Fangirl ! He need a girl that praise him when he deserved it But also point out his mistake and scold him for his reckless attitude.

Even In Doreamon , Shizuka is always polite to Nobita But that doesn't stop her from scolding Nobita and hit him when he does something wrong . ( Like when he saw her naked in Bath Or he insult somebody).
Honestly , I would like if 4 guy get attracted to Serena . May attracted 2 guy while Dawn attracted 3 guys .
Atleast , It give Amourshipping more challenge.
I prefer when the Protagonist face Challenge in Love instate of Heroin . Unless if this is Harem Anime.
For example , I was thinking about Pokemon & Digimon Cross over ! But no matter how I try , Ash X Kari seem more interesting even though Serena & Kari has similar personality.
I think it because Kari is seem more of a challenge compare to Serena ! Honestly it much more fun to me if Ash is the one suffering from a crush instate a girl crushing on him.

Too bad Ash will never be able to tell the difference. By Gen 7, he'll probably end up traveling with some overblown, shallow, violent, out-of-control, ladette, tsundere girl. And Gen 8 will be anyone's guess.

Will anyone even watch this show during Gen 08 ???
There no point watching after Gen VI series unless Ash get replaced Or Ash become champion and goes to new region to do something new .

 

[Garchomp]

Serena is like a container of milk. Initially sweet, pure, wholesole, good for you, and good for making sweet pastries and other desserts. However, she also comes with a sell-by date, and I say that instead of expiration date because you can never tell when something as sweet as milk will curdle and go sour. Serena already starting these signs, and one of them came in the form of her slapping Ash's hand in the Diancie movie (Thanks for showing me that gif, Famon. Truly appreciate it. *sarcasm*). At that point, it was just another reminder that these are the same usual writers who brought Ash down to stupid in the first place, as well as the same ones who gave us Iris, Flambo Cilan, tons of scrappy rivals, and cost Ash the Vertress Conference. Also the same people who made May and Dawn barely tolerable, with their obsessions with contests and other girly things in tow. Either way, nothing has changed. But I guess I should've been tipped off about Serena's expiry date who she was annoyed that Ash didn't remember her (a new entry in the latest generation). And here I thought, while May and Dawn were so obsessed with their own goals that they forget that he matters (yet they travel with Ash to fulfill), Serena would be the one girl who would be a sweet enough fan of the underdog and try to help him be the best trainer he could be, without biting his head off. But now, Serena is just one of the girls (and Bonnie is too young to protest or even know what's going on. Clemont in his own parental-brotherly way would just tell her to shut up, keep quiet and stay put). But as Ash is concerned, "Traveling with friends is way more fun!", and would sugarcoat all of this by saying that his friends are unique and have there own personalities, strengths, and flaws. Meanwhile, Serena will become more and more assertive, that you forget she was ever meant for Ash, and is just Female Lead Traveling Companion #5

I really hate to pick on you, and I'm sorry if I am, but what honestly did I just read...

For starters, it really sounds like you thought May and Dawn didn't care about Ash at all. Just because they have their own goals, it doesn't mean they can't still have meaningful friendships and care about each other; Ash is the exact same, isn't he? I find it odd you didn't even throw Misty and Iris in the same boat. Every girl has been to every one of his gym battles, and even Dawn went the extra mile to wear the fanservice-y cheerleader outfit on occasion.

Milk takes around three weeks to go sour. I find it odd that you think Serena is starting to go down the proverbial drain because she slapped his hand away once, when he was reaching for a small piece of cake that she envisioned would be split between the four of them(five, after Diantha showed up, and that was XY028).

And I guess Serena isn't allowed to have a goal, apparently, because that automatically means she's not going to care about Ash anymore? Is it wrong to have a goal of some sort that doesn't have to do with Ash? Who said they won't try to balance her crush subplot with a goal? Isn't that what people in real life do? If you haven't picked up, XY059 is called "Ash and Serena's First Date!? The Vow Tree and the Present!".

Ash doesn't need a Fangirl ! He need a girl that praise him when he deserved it But also point out his mistake and scold him for his reckless attitude.

Isn't this what it boils down to? Like the previous four companions, they supported him throughout the whole series giving him praise when he genuinely deserved it, but called him out when he needed it. That's what people in real life do too, right?

Honestly, your post in my head sounded the exact opposite of feminism. Again, sorry for calling you out.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I really hate to pick on you, and I'm sorry if I am, but what honestly did I just read...

For starters, it really sounds like you thought May and Dawn didn't care about Ash at all. Just because they have their own goals, it doesn't mean they can't still have meaningful friendships and care about each other; Ash is the exact same, isn't he? I find it odd you didn't even throw Misty and Iris in the same boat. Every girl has been to every one of his gym battles, and even Dawn went the extra mile to wear the fanservice-y cheerleader outfit on occasion.

To be fair regarding May, the way they handled her departure, one could make the case that May didn't even care for Ash at all, especially when she didn't seem even remotely sad, certainly not crying, or even hesitant. In fact, she seemed to want to get to Johto ASAP. The only one of the main cast of AG who was even remotely hesitant about leaving the group was Max. At least, that's what the episode review thread on SPPf for the split-up episode of AG indicated, as the posters basically mentioned that it went along the lines of May just saying goodbye and then departing, little indication that she was even sad or hesitant. Dawn at least actually cried a bit before leaving Ash. Heck, Misty did not take her departure well at all, so they at least showed they actually cared for Ash, being hesitant to actually leave. Come on, even Anakin Skywalker, who was excited about leaving Tatooine in Phantom Menace, also expressed some concern for his mom, and was devastated when he learned she can't come with.

Milk takes around three weeks to go sour. I find it odd that you think Serena is starting to go down the proverbial drain because she slapped his hand away once, when he was reaching for a small piece of cake that she envisioned would be split between the four of them(five, after Diantha showed up, and that was XY028).

Yeah, agreed with that. Then again, exempting possibly Ash, this guy has a notoriously low tolerance for even the slightest infraction of any of the main characters. He's got a lower tolerance rate than Sheldon Cooper from the Big Bang Theory, and that's saying a lot. He likes Serena, yet the very instant she does something even slightly violent, even if it was actually perfectly justified, it's all "darn you to hades" from him. Man, talk about fair-weather friends/fair-weather fans. Actually, maybe even less than that. I know Misty's flaws, heck, Ash's flaws, yet even I don't abandon them for even the slightest infraction, never mind any of the more severe ones they did.

And I guess Serena isn't allowed to have a goal, apparently, because that automatically means she's not going to care about Ash anymore? Is it wrong to have a goal of some sort that doesn't have to do with Ash? Who said they won't try to balance her crush subplot with a goal? Isn't that what people in real life do? If you haven't picked up, XY059 is called "Ash and Serena's First Date!? The Vow Tree and the Present!".

Yeah, and besides, she'd need to have a goal just to actually serve a purpose on the show. Even Misty had a goal, at least by Johto, maybe earlier. Even May and Dawn, who I'd argue are closer to the Hina stereotypes than the others (Misty or even Iris and/or Serena, and only the first was definitely not one) were not effectively Claudia, Laura and Paula to Ash's Gaston (and at least those three were just side characters, not the main protagonist). That being said, I wouldn't necessarily take XY059's title without any grains of salt, as the titles have misled us before (don't forget, Date with Delcatty's Japanese title implied that Misty basically was going to nearly get herself killed, when that wasn't even close to being the case. And Luvdisc is a Most Spendored thing made it seem as though there would be a lot of Orangeshipping in the previews, when most if not all of it were just Daisy's overactive imagination).

And for Famon, give her credit where credit is due. While it may not be fully confirmed yet, Serena is still likely to be actually getting a goal now, which means she won't simply be Ash's fangirl now. And to be honest, May and Dawn seemed more of the Unwanted Harem types, they remind me too much of the girls from Love Hina, and not in a good way (and for the record, the Fiorello Fangirls from Princess vs. Princess are basically the same). Then again, I never saw XY, so what am I to say about it. Maybe she is like that and I haven't a clue since I never actually saw even a small portion of an episode of XY in my life, unlike AG or DP, where I at least saw a snippit, if not a few episodes.

 

[Kid Sonic]

Iris sucked because Writer tried to make a ''Misty'' out her !
Iris would been a lot more popular if she was wild childish but smart like her --

Spoiler:

Jibrill (No game no life)

Misty was a ''Handler'' and Iris was a ''wild Girl'' . The two doesn't mix !
Iris was better off as a referring Character ! Her biggest misfortune that she was chosen as a Cast character.
As For Serena , If She act like Fangirl who never get irritated by Ash no matter what he do then that make her a Boring girl.

Ash doesn't need a Fangirl ! He need a girl that praise him when he deserved it But also point out his mistake and scold him for his reckless attitude.

Even In Doreamon , Shizuka is always polite to Nobita But that doesn't stop her from scolding Nobita and hit him when he does something wrong . ( Like when he saw her naked in Bath Or he insult somebody).
Honestly , I would like if 4 guy get attracted to Serena . May attracted 2 guy while Dawn attracted 3 guys .
Atleast , It give Amourshipping more challenge.
I prefer when the Protagonist face Challenge in Love instate of Heroin . Unless if this is Harem Anime.
For example , I was thinking about Pokemon & Digimon Cross over ! But no matter how I try , Ash X Kari seem more interesting even though Serena & Kari has similar personality.
I think it because Kari is seem more of a challenge compare to Serena ! Honestly it much more fun to me if Ash is the one suffering from a crush instate a girl crushing on him.



Will anyone even watch this show during Gen 08 ???
There no point watching after Gen VI series unless Ash get replaced Or Ash become champion and goes to new region to do something new .

Well since you're so insistent on this afixiation, I ask this:

If that's the case, DOES ASH REALLY NEED TO BE PORTRAYED AS RECKLESS!? If this is what people are going to wish on Ash, then what's that point in the first place. It's like creating an artificial human being named Smacky McEstupido (Codename: LEROY.JENKINS), whose sole purpose is to be as rash, childish, and stupid as possible, so others can yell at him and inflict physical abuse.

 

[Famon]

Ta-Daa , Performer Serena !!!!
A lot of people are worried about Serena face during 0:09 ! They think the ''Date'' might gone wrong and Serena giving up on Ash .
But I think the opposite ! I think Serena decide to show her true personality .
I think , The ''Sassy Serena'' that attacked Fletchling and talk back to her mother is the Real Serena But She decide to hide her true personality in order to be like by Ash.
However , Reuniting with her Mom and the ''Date'' somehow made Serena realize that she doesn't need to change herself to be like by Ash and She should chase after him as the Real her.
In other word , The Quick-Temper Sassy Serena that only existed in XY 01 & 02.
That what I think !!!

 

[Kid Sonic]

Ta-Daa , Performer Serena !!!!
A lot of people are worried about Serena face during 0:09 ! They think the ''Date'' might gone wrong and Serena giving up on Ash .
But I think the opposite ! I think Serena decide to show her true personality .
I think , The ''Sassy Serena'' that attacked Fletchling and talk back to her mother is the Real Serena But She decide to hide her true personality in order to be like by Ash.
However , Reuniting with her Mom and the ''Date'' somehow made Serena realize that she doesn't need to change herself to be like by Ash and She should chase after him as the Real her.
In other word , The Quick-Temper Sassy Serena that only existed in XY 01 & 02.
That what I think !!!

I don't want Serena to ever be sassy. Who can possibly want something like that, that much? I've seen how Pokemon handles that kind of thing. And it comes off as just plain irritating. First it shows in the facial expressions, which is about as subtle as Brock's Ludicolo. Then the dub writers just add insult to injury by making characters sound far too exaggerated in everything they say, the voice actors don't make things better either. It's getting to the point where to keep enough people content, it's best to just keep Ash indefinately single and always have him part ways with his friends, if he has to travel with them at all. Or, they could keep Serena as nice and somewhat demure as she's been (save for Team Rocket encounters), forget all those other "sassy/he deserved it" moments like Big-Lipped Feraligatr moments, and not "fix" what isn't already broken (yet).

I'm literally not joking when I say Pokemon has given me serious migrains on Saturday mornings (the one day where I'm supposed to kick back, chillax, and watch shows I actually like, if I could find them.......). I could literally feel the nerve of my brain pounding or splitting into two when the anime ensues with their usual brand of .....eyyy-uhh-yeahhh.

Do. Not. Want.

 

[Famon]

A pic comparing Serena with all other girl

http://vk.com/wall-63373165?offset=240&own=1&z=photo-63373165_344693337%2Falbum-63373165_00%2Frev

 

[Jorah]

^ wot. Serena has two legs, two eyes, and a chest, halp, she's just a copy of all other girls on earth. I can only give you the ridiculously short ponytail, I don't know how those two keep it in place.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Oh, great. They just HAD to repeat the mistake they made with May by giving her a chest far too large for a 10 year old. Misty at least was flat-chested (this was made explicit in the Japanese version of Beauty and the Beach, by Jessie and Ash, so don't even ATTEMPT to deny it) and actually given the dimensions of an actual 10 year old for the most part. Even Dawn at least didn't have THAT, nor did Iris.

@Jorah: Other than May, none of the girls had that big of a chest, so don't bother.

 

[Garchomp]

Oh, great. They just HAD to repeat the mistake they made with May by giving her a chest far too large for a 10 year old. Misty at least was flat-chested (this was made explicit in the Japanese version of Beauty and the Beach, by Jessie and Ash, so don't even ATTEMPT to deny it) and actually given the dimensions of an actual 10 year old for the most part. Even Dawn at least didn't have THAT, nor did Iris.

Why does it even matter anyways??