Homosexuality

[Alley Cat]

If you believe that gay and straight people are equals than how can one intrinsically know that it's a matter of choice more than the other?

"Did the X person choose to be X or was it due to their genetics and upbringing?"

X could be gay or straight. Birds may not know why they fly in a V formation, we don't know why we yawn.

True that. It's just.. why would anyone choose a lifestyle will people automatically hate them, form prejudice against, and go out of their way to torment? That's what I don't get. Not to mention also the fact that animals have gay habits too.

 

[Myles]

True that. It's just.. why would anyone choose a lifestyle will people automatically hate them, form prejudice against, and go out of their way to torment? That's what I don't get. Not to mention also the fact that animals have gay habits too.

Exactly though. The reasons (e.g. that, but they are more scientific studies, such as identical twins being more likely to share sexualities) we know it's not a choice can be understood equally between people of all sexualities.

 

[Alley Cat]

That's true, and I never said that they couldn't. I was merely saying that the only reason I, personally, figured it out as a choice because I was gay.

 

[Taemin]

You know what grinds my gears? The fact that gays think they're right about the subject simply because they are gay.

If that's true, you'd have to also be straight to be right about being straight. But one defines the other. Problem?

You have a point. xD

But still.. people going against the fact that being gay is a choice, when plenty of people who are gay are stressing that it's not a choice.. >_>

You can't really know the complete truth, nor what it's like unless you are gay.
You can't totally know what it's like be transgender, unless you are.
You can't fully know what it's like to ride in an airplane, unless you have before.

People who are heterosexual can learn, and sympathize, and study, and befriend, and guess, explore their own orientations, but unless they really are fully homosexual.. they can't be completely certain enough about it to judge it 100 percent. They can't fully know what goes on inside the minds of people in the LGBT group to know it's not a choice, just like people in said group can't know exactly what it's like to be straight.

 

[Shining Raichu]

You know what grinds my gears? The fact that gays think they're right about the subject simply because they are gay.

If that's true, you'd have to also be straight to be right about being straight. But one defines the other. Problem?

Well yeah, doesn't that stand to reason?

How obnoxious is it for a straight person to say that homosexuality is a choice, when gay people - who actually know - are assuring everybody that it is not? How do straight people think they know better than we do? It's ridiculous. We know for a fact that it is not a choice because we are gay. How is it OK for someone to express an opposing opinion on that when this isn't even a matter of opinion?

Of course we are right. And of course it is simply because we are gay. And yeah, one does define the other - but the fact that being straight is not a choice never seems to come under public scrutiny.

I'm not saying that heterosexual people are stupid or ignorant about gay people. This isn't a world of Straight Vs. Gay. But yeah, the ones who say that homosexuality is a choice are clearly both. And they're clearly not listening.

If this were a subject about whether homosexuality was caused by nature or nurture, then that's fine. That's still a matter of opinion until science can 100% prove it one way or the other, and can be speculated upon until the cows come home. But never approach me or any other gay person and tell them that this is a choice they made. Because that is incorrect.

Also, what Drew said. Cos Drew said basically what I wanted to but nicer lol

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Geak]

Heh.. This is... Well it's an eye opener.

Being transgender my opinion is byast, because obviously a common argument is I'm a gay man who wants to get with straight men. That's completley untrue mind, but this isn't about me, it's about whether being gay is a choice.

It is NOT a CHOICE it will NEVER be a CHOICE.
You are BORN gay, it's an UNCHANGEABLE aspect of your GENES and due to circumstances in the WOMB. The very thought that any sane person would choose to lead a life where so many people hate them just for being attracted to the same sex is absurd, my cousin is a lesbian and I can safely say that she did NOT CHOOSE to be attracted to women, and the stereotypical signs of being homosexual where there from a very YOUNG age, which backs up the whole being born gay thing. While I agree you do not know your sexuality until you hit puberty and the hormone rush begins but there are generally going to be signs of it beforehand.

So yeah, if you tl;dr this I'm basically saying:
It's >NOT< a >CHOICE< -- You >ARE BORN GAY<

You said it better than I ever could! Finally someone understands that this is a process that starts in the womb (that involves the mother not being able to produce the right amount of hormones around the 3 month mark, correct?). It makes me so glad to see someone who agrees with me on this.

 

[Myles]

but the fact that being straight is not a choice never seems to come under public scrutiny.

Well technically by saying that homosexuality is a choice, they're saying that being straight is too. And by us saying it isn't, means that we're saying that it isn't a choice. Since (other than bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality, whatever) that's the only other option.

 

[Shining Raichu]

Well technically by saying that homosexuality is a choice, they're saying that being straight is too. And by us saying it isn't, means that we're saying that it isn't a choice. Since (other than bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality, whatever) that's the only other option.

Precisely lol. So isn't it interesting that it's only the straight people who seem to be under the impression that any sexuality could be a choice?

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Well technically by saying that homosexuality is a choice, they're saying that being straight is too. And by us saying it isn't, means that we're saying that it isn't a choice. Since (other than bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality, whatever) that's the only other option.

That is a logical fallacy. You are saying that if A is caused by B, then C must also be caused by B.

Homosexuality =/= Heterosexuality, so if homosexuality is caused by choice, birth, environment, etc., it does not necessarily mean that heterosexuality is caused by the same thing(s).

 

[twistedpuppy]

That is a logical fallacy. You are saying that if A is caused by B, then C must also be caused by B.

Homosexuality =/= Heterosexuality, so if homosexuality is caused by choice, birth, environment, etc., it does not necessarily mean that heterosexuality is caused by the same thing(s).

A, B, & C are different, but they're all letters. Just as heterosexuality & homosexuality are different, but they fall under human sexuality.

I may get in trouble for saying this, but I believe homosexuality can be a "choice". And like Myles stated before heterosexuality can be a "choice" as well. We see it all the time when a homosexual man or woman "chooses" to lead a heterosexual lifestyle to assimilate with what society considers the "norm". Of course this doesn't mean they all enjoy the lifestyle they choose. Many times these people revert back to the way the they were hardwired simply because they were unhappy with the "choice" they made.

My point is all forms of human sexuality can be a "choice", but they're an individuals choice. It doesn't speak for the entire majority.

 

[Shining Raichu]

I may get in trouble for saying this, but I believe homosexuality can be a choice. And like Myles stated before heterosexuality can be a choice as well. We see it all the time when a homosexual man or woman chooses to lead a heterosexual lifestyle to assimilate with what society considers the "norm". Oh course this doesn't mean they all enjoy the lifestyle they choose. Many times these people revert back to the way the they were hardwired simply because they were unhappy with the choice they made.

My point is all forms of human sexuality can be a choice, but they're an individuals choice. It doesn't speak for the entire majority.

Just because someone chooses to live heterosexually that doesn't mean they are heterosexual. They are choosing to live a certain way, but the sexuality itself is encoded into the brain. It's not choosing a sexuality, it's ignoring it.

 

[twistedpuppy]

Just because someone chooses to live heterosexually that doesn't mean they are heterosexual. They are choosing to live a certain way, but the sexuality itself is encoded into the brain. It's not choosing a sexuality, it's ignoring it.

That's what I said, but worded differently. I guess I should have added quotation marks on the word choice. But to be clear up my point, yes they're not changing the way they're hardwired. They're just ignoring it.

 

[Myles]

That is a logical fallacy. You are saying that if A is caused by B, then C must also be caused by B.

Homosexuality =/= Heterosexuality, so if homosexuality is caused by choice, birth, environment, etc., it does not necessarily mean that heterosexuality is caused by the same thing(s).

No, I'm saying that when people talk about homosexuality being a choice, to them, they think heterosexuality is the 'default' (and likely don't even acknowledge the existence of other sexualities), so by saying that someone 'chose' to be homosexual rather than heterosexual, they're saying that if they didn't make that choice they would be heterosexual, thus they're 'choosing' to not be heterosexual, hence they think heterosexuality is a choice.

I don't see the logical fallacy.

Precisely lol. So isn't it interesting that it's only the straight people who seem to be under the impression that any sexuality could be a choice?

It's likely caused by the fact that people that share that point of view usually have it because they're badly educated about sexuality or are prejudice; both of which are more common in straight people. Also some could be naturally inclined to homosexuality but oppress it; which could make them think it's a choice even worse. (I say 'naturally inclined' because I think people should be referred to as what they want to be referred to, similar to gender).

 

[FreakyLocz14]

No, I'm saying that when people talk about homosexuality being a choice, to them, they think heterosexuality is the 'default' (and likely don't even acknowledge the existence of other sexualities), so by saying that someone 'chose' to be homosexual rather than heterosexual, they're saying that if they didn't make that choice they would be heterosexual, thus they're 'choosing' to not be heterosexual, hence they think heterosexuality is a choice.

I don't see the logical fallacy.

If heterosexuality is a choice, then nobody could be that by default. Your logic isn't making sense now.

 

[Azonic]

You know what grinds my gears? The fact that gays think they're right about the subject simply because they are gay.

If that's true, you'd have to also be straight to be right about being straight. But one defines the other. Problem?

Ehh... I *sort of* disagree but not really maybe. idk. but the LGBT community in general more rejected by society. Their insecurities about their orientation tend to lead them to do more extensive research on the topic. Most straights don't even bother with research and don't care because this issue doesn't apply to them, since they are the supposed "normal ones". The straights that do accept new research tend to agree that being gay isn't a choice.

Gays have more experience with the topic because they are the ones who are rejected and often try to turn straight, but can't. Straights never want to turn gay, so they don't really have experience with this topic. You know?

There has been scientific research on this topic, I'm sure. Some chromosomes are linked to orientation and a bunch of other stuff. i cbf'd to look it up though. It's not 100% proven but there's a strong correlation.

However whether you're born gay or certain factors affect you while growing up, all I can say is that it isn't a choice.

lolololol so many born this way references. praise godga.

 

[Full Metal]

^ Well written, did you write it? (:
I'm fairly certain it's not a conscious choice.
It might be a sub-conscious choice?
Who knows.
But in honesty, why does it matter?
IF somebody is gay (gay.isaChoice)? then it is their choice : then that's who they are
-- and you need to respect that. ( lookup the ? operator in any decent language to know what the above sentence means. :P )

 

[Nameless.]

Well yeah, doesn't that stand to reason?

How obnoxious is it for a straight person to say that homosexuality is a choice, when gay people - who actually know - are assuring everybody that it is not? How do straight people think they know better than we do? It's ridiculous. We know for a fact that it is not a choice because we are gay. How is it OK for someone to express an opposing opinion on that when this isn't even a matter of opinion?

It's not a matter of knowing better than those who are homosexual. It's the fact that we have an opinion and a view of our very own that we perceive homosexuality in. If there was no such thing as opinion on this subject, this topic would already be closed. I'm not meaning to offend, so I apologize if I have or if I do in the future. It's not my intention. Homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality, pansexuality... no matter which you are, there will always be views for each from a different side that may or may not be the truth in the carrier's eyes. You know who you are, what you are, and where you're going, but that doesn't mean everyone else will understand. This is a topic made to discuss the two ideas of how homosexuality may work, and possibly every other sexuality as well given the chance. And honestly many of the heterosexuals here, I'm sure, have been down the other road before when they were growing up.

This was stated to back up Syd's claim on how many of us don't have a completely untouched sexuality that has never changed.

Doesn't this entitle them to speak their thoughts on the whole deal as well? They must have some clue if they were there once. Of course they aren't full-fledged as many of the posters here are, but they may have felt an attraction to someone of the same sex before as well. If a full-fledged heterosexual speaks out here, they also have entitlement to speaking their observation. I find that even if you may not have experience with it, you may have an interesting view to share. They may not have experience of their very own to back up their words, but they have eyes in their sockets, and ears on their head. They should be enabled to give their thoughts without getting shat all over. This mostly applies to those who aren't speaking with negative intent towards the homosexuals here. :P

Idk, those are my thoughts anyway.
​

 

[Zet]

If heterosexuality is a choice, then nobody could be that by default. Your logic isn't making sense now.

Just think about it for a second, if people can "choose" to be homosexual, then that means people can also "choose" to be heterosexual.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Just think about it for a second, if people can "choose" to be homosexual, then that means people can also "choose" to be heterosexual.

I fail to see what brought you to that conclusion. Just because something is caused by something, it doesn't mean that the opposite is also caused by it.

 

[Myles]

I fail to see what brought you to that conclusion. Just because something is caused by something, it doesn't mean that the opposite is also caused by it.

That doesn't even make sense. If I choose not to do something, then I chose to not do that thing. :S

choice n.
1. An act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities
- the choice between good and evil

2. The right or ability to make, or possibility of making, such a selection
- I had to do it, I had no choice

3. A range of possibilities from which one or more may be selected
- you can have a sofa made to order in a choice of over forty fabrics

4. A course of action, thing, or person that is selected or decided upon
- this CD drive is the perfect choice for your computer