Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

[BettyNewbie]

Maybe it could take place before the alternate events of Red/Leaf's adventure. Perhaps it could show a player who knows young Lysander, Cynthia, and Sycamore, Cynthia is said in DPP to have had a dex when she was younger so Red may not have been the first dex holder...

A game centered around one of the most overexposed and overrated characters ever? No way!

(Sorry, but I just can't stand Cynthia and would like to see *a lot* less of her.)

One prequel I wouldn't mind seeing is the "Generation 0" idea that's been floating around online, taking place around 50 (or so) years before Gen 1 and featuring a younger Oak and Agatha as player characters. We could learn more about their past relationship, as well as their relationships with other characters (like Bertha, for example).

If you don't want to go that far back, I'd also love a game centered around Lance and Clair training to become Dragon Masters (which would take place about 10 years before Gen 1), as one person attempted to do with a (now cancelled) Gold hack a couple of years ago. I love both of their characters, and I think it would be cool to see how they started off. It would be a very different kind of game.

 

[morrison]

I dont buy this wjole they dont exist anymore in the canon stuff. seriously, it is not like they got retconned so far or anything, I am still for a 20 years later Kanto experience, and I think the sevii islands where a poor excuse for sth like the orange archipelago. maybe this time they could do a proper orange islands

 

[BettyNewbie]

I dont buy this wjole they dont exist anymore in the canon stuff. seriously, it is not like they got retconned so far or anything

No, FRLG and HGSS haven't been retconned out of canon, altogether, but they don't exist in the same timeline as the current games. And, GF isn't going to revive a "dead" timeline anytime soon (otherwise, we would've gotten a sequel to GSC a long time ago).

I think the sevii islands where a poor excuse for sth like the orange archipelago. maybe this time they could do a proper orange islands

As much as I enjoyed the Orange Islands anime, if that game was going to happen, it would've already happened a long time ago. Alas, the region wasn't created by GF, so don't expect to see it on the handhelds anytime soon (same goes for Orre).

I wouldn't mind seeing Sevii be expanded into a full region with its own gyms and league. There were *a lot* of missed opportunities with those islands.

 

[LusoTrainer]

nd I think the sevii islands where a poor excuse for sth like the orange archipelago.

It wasn't an excuse for anything, it was just optional extra content.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

No, FRLG and HGSS haven't been retconned out of canon, altogether, but they don't exist in the same timeline as the current games. And, GF isn't going to revive a "dead" timeline anytime soon (otherwise, we would've gotten a sequel to GSC a long time ago).



As much as I enjoyed the Orange Islands anime, if that game was going to happen, it would've already happened a long time ago. Alas, the region wasn't created by GF, so don't expect to see it on the handhelds anytime soon (same goes for Orre).

I wouldn't mind seeing Sevii be expanded into a full region with its own gyms and league. There were *a lot* of missed opportunities with those islands.

There sure was. There was even suppose to be more than seven main islands, hence the lady in Seventh island (irc it was 7th) implying that the Sevii islands may not be named as such due to their being seven and that there may be more. Also the mystery of the crop circles was never shown...it left me hanging. Also it'll be fitting to bring back the Sevii islands in a possible Red/Green/Blue/Yellow remake remake/remake in a Seventh gen due to the number similar to the V in Victini possibly symbolizing Gen V (interestingly the Statue of Liberty was given to U.S. by France so perhaps Victini and Victini coincidentally has Vi (6) in it's name. Another thing of interest is how Unova's shape seemed to be the Hexagon (6) (it's main routes forming one around the Extralink) while Kalos' is a Pentagon (5)).

 

[BettyNewbie]

There sure was. There was even suppose to be more than seven main islands, hence the lady in Seventh island (irc it was 7th) implying that the Sevii islands may not be named as such due to their being seven and that there may be more. Also the mystery of the crop circles was never shown...it left me hanging.

FRLG were obviously rushed out in a hurry, as you can see from the staggering list of unused maps and sprites located with the games' data (Including possible data for Pikachu's Beach!), and the fact that the games removed so many features that had been present in previous ones (like day/night, berries, and contests). For whatever reason, they just didn't take the time to develop the Sevii Islands any more than they had to. Even Kanto was barely any more developed than it was in the originals (arguably less so than it was in Yellow).

Why did they rush the games so much? We know that GF was working on Emerald at the same time, so it's possible that they didn't want to delay that game any more than they had to (especially with the GBA's successor, the DS, coming out later that year). They may have also been in a rush to win back the many people who scorned Ruby and Sapphire's lack of older Pokémon and connections with the previous two regions.

Either way, it had a negative impact on the quality of FRLG as remakes, especially when you compare them to the later HGSS and ORAS, which were clearly made with care and proper planning. It's no wonder that the games have aged so poorly (arguably worse than the original RBY, IMO, since FRLG had the potential to be so much more), and it's yet, another reason to remake Gen 1 again.

Also it'll be fitting to bring back the Sevii islands in a possible Red/Green/Blue/Yellow remake remake/remake in a Seventh gen due to the number similar to the V in Victini possibly symbolizing Gen V (interestingly the Statue of Liberty was given to U.S. by France so perhaps Victini and Victini coincidentally has Vi (6) in it's name. Another thing of interest is how Unova's shape seemed to be the Hexagon (6) (it's main routes forming one around the Extralink) while Kalos' is a Pentagon (5)).

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[morrison]

[S-HIGHLIGHT][/S-HIGHLIGHT]he he even more wter to complain about for ign xD. I wonder whether they also complained about water in the nds game for zelda?

I would like a archipelago version though like based off oceania.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

FRLG were obviously rushed out in a hurry, as you can see from the staggering list of unused maps and sprites located with the games' data (Including possible data for Pikachu's Beach!), and the fact that the games removed so many features that had been present in previous ones (like day/night, berries, and contests). For whatever reason, they just didn't take the time to develop the Sevii Islands any more than they had to. Even Kanto was barely any more developed than it was in the originals (arguably less so than it was in Yellow).

Why did they rush the games so much? We know that GF was working on Emerald at the same time, so it's possible that they didn't want to delay that game any more than they had to (especially with the GBA's successor, the DS, coming out later that year). They may have also been in a rush to win back the many people who scorned Ruby and Sapphire's lack of older Pokémon and connections with the previous two regions.

Either way, it had a negative impact on the quality of FRLG as remakes, especially when you compare them to the later HGSS and ORAS, which were clearly made with care and proper planning. It's no wonder that the games have aged so poorly (arguably worse than the original RBY, IMO, since FRLG had the potential to be so much more), and it's yet, another reason to remake Gen 1 again.



That's interesting. I didn't know that.

I think that Kanto overall is the less developed of the regions. Even GS Johto felt more developed to me from what little I played of it compared to FrLg Kanto but then again I didn't play the originals... they didn't even develop Kanto though in the Johto remakes though...seems Kanto will always be the simple region out of the five...GF is thinking of going 'Simple' with Gen VII according to an interview they did some time after XY came out...honestly if they plan on doing that they may as well remake Kanto...

 

[Wicked3DS]

Why do FR/LG just cease to exist in the timeline now?

Also, what crop circles in FR/LG?

 

[BettyNewbie]

Why do FR/LG just cease to exist in the timeline now?

Because, ORAS established the existence of a new timeline where Megas and Fairies exist, so none of the first five Gens are part of that timeline. Remember that the Hoenn story is supposed to take place at the same time as Gen 1 Kanto...

I think that Kanto overall is the less developed of the regions. Even GS Johto felt more developed to me from what little I played of it compared to FrLg Kanto but then again I didn't play the originals... they didn't even develop Kanto though in the Johto remakes though...seems Kanto will always be the simple region out of the five...GF is thinking of going 'Simple' with Gen VII according to an interview they did some time after XY came out...honestly if they plan on doing that they may as well remake Kanto...

There's nothing inherently bad about simpler stories (in fact, I much prefer Gen 1's simple, yet realistic story to Gen 3 and 4's attempts at going "epic" with heavy-handed mythology, "god" Pokémon, and the like), but there was still a lot of room for improvement.

Even if FRLG weren't Yellow Remakes, I would've liked to see Jessie and James return. Aside from being an easy, convenient way to introduce double battles into Gen 1, they also had a lot of potential for further development. Why didn't they return in Gen 2? Did something happen to them when Archer took over Team Rocket? We could've gotten a little bit of the Grunts' perspective on how their employer treated them (which, I imagine wasn't well), and Jessie and James would've been developed into distinct characters from their anime counterparts.

And, what about Mewtwo? Why and how did it destroy Cinnabar Mansion, and why was it in Cerulean Cave? And, most importantly, who created Mewtwo in the first place? Was Team Rocket involved? There was *a lot* more they could've done with this.

And, everything about the Sevii Islands. If you're going to go through the trouble of making a brand new region for FRLG, then do exactly that. Why couldn't they have had some gyms? And, I wouldn't have minded seeing them take a page from the anime and introduce a connection between Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres and Lugia.

And, then, there's the gameplay-related stuff. There was absolutely NO excuse for getting rid of the internal clock, let alone day/night. Yes, the originals didn't have one, but FRLG were supposed to be 3rd Generation games. They might as well have gotten rid of held items, abilities, and natures.

Same goes for berry trees. GSC had already established berry trees as existing in Kanto, so why suddenly get rid of them? Again, FRLG were supposed to be modern remakes, not Red and Blue with 16-bit graphics pasted on.

And, the Pokédex. Gen 2 Pokémon are just as much a part of Kanto as the Gen 1 ones, so why restrict us to just the original 150, to the point of not even letting us evolve Golbat? What was so bad about giving us the first 251 (plus Azurill and Wynaut)? At the very least, could we have gotten the 40 Gen 2 Pokémon that were originally planned for Red and Green?

While FRLG have their fans, many people (myself included) found them to be very disappointing remakes. There were just way too many missed opportunities with those games, and while it's good that GF seems to have learned their mistakes with HGSS and ORAS, it's a shame to see the beloved 1st Generation stuck with such underwhelming remakes. I think they deserve better than that.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

They should at least had the Gen II evos, at least the evolution by happiness ones like how HgSs had the evolution by move ones. One of the things I love about OrAs apart from returning to Hoenn is that it went all the way and included all the cross generatinal evolutions of the mons in the dex unlike FrLg and HgSs. I hope future remakes do this.

Kanto now has several more cross generational evos now so if they remake it again they should add all those. With them it'll have mons from each Gen minus 3 (as Wabuffet, Marill and Azumarill aren't part of the Kanto dex) and 5.

 

[Hiatus]

I agree with that; as explained above, it'd likely be best if they had included future-generation evolutions within PokéDex (that is, if their pre-evolution forms are a part of the region) in remakes. Although this would make it slightly more difficult when it comes to completing native Dex and whatnot, but not overly.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Kanto now has several more cross generational evos now so if they remake it again they should add all those. With them it'll have mons from each Gen minus 3 (as Wabuffet, Marill and Azumarill aren't part of the Kanto dex) and 5.

They were as of Gen 2. The idea of "Regional Dexes" didn't come along until Gen 3, and it's silly to try to force Kanto and Johto into the mold of Hoenn and Sinnoh (as FRLG and to a lesser extent, HGSS tried and failed to do). Gen 2 Pokémon are just as much a part Kanto as the Gen 1 ones, and denying that only hurts the games. If I wanted to be restricted to the limited first 150 (even if it included cross-Gen pre/evolutions), I'd just fire up my old Yellow cartridge.

Again, things like this are why I truly want to see Gens 1 and 2 remade within the same Generation. It's the only way that GF would truly acknowledge Gen 2 as being a Gen 1 sequel again. The biggest thing that hurt HGSS was that they were designed more as GSC remakes than FRLG sequels, IMO, so they have all sorts of continuity issues with FRLG that GSC didn't with RBY. I would not like to see GF repeat that mistake.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Well HgSs did anwser somethings brought up only in FrLg like who Giovanni's red haired son is (Silver). It also showed the top two Johto executives leading the Sevii island branch and how they wanted to do things to have Giovanni return, also a mention of the device they would use on the Lake of Rage to evolve Gyarados. Those may be small but to me it made HgSs will like a conclusion to FrLg.
Interestingly due to the alternate world OrAs no longer feels as much of a parallel-quel to the Kanto games.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Well HgSs did anwser somethings brought up only in FrLg like who Giovanni's red haired son is (Silver). It also showed the top two Johto executives leading the Sevii island branch and how they wanted to do things to have Giovanni return, also a mention of the device they would use on the Lake of Rage to evolve Gyarados. Those may be small but to me it made HgSs will like a conclusion to FrLg.

I'll give you Silver, but the Rocket Executives and their evolution device were in the original GSC, and very little changed about them in HGSS except that they had names and unique sprites (which debuted in HGSS, not FRLG). Their appearances in FRLG were intended to be a reference to GSC (which were still only 3-4 years old at the time, ironically closer to FRLG than HGSS were), so any continuity with HGSS is purely coincidental. Now, if they had Archer mention meeting Red or his operations in the Sevii Islands, on the other hand...

Interestingly due to the alternate world OrAs no longer feels as much of a parallel-quel to the Kanto games.

That's because FRLG are 10 years older than ORAS and were designed specifically to parallel the original RSE (on the earlier timeline). They don't feel like parallel-quels, because they aren't. A new Gen 1 game, on the other hand, would be a different story.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Giovanni does mention/allure to Red but not by name in HgSs in the Celebi Event.

I know, just saying that the remakes seem to be more distant from the other games compared to the originals (same will happen with DP and HgSs even if Gen I and II were to be remade. Actually a Gen I remake won't be a good parallel of Gen III unless if it get's remade this Gen but without Gen II which should be remade with Gen IV to keep the parallels. Something is bound to break. Actually Gen DP remakes next Gen or in Gen VIII will break the current Hoenn-Kalos timeline...as DP happen before XY but their remakes will have new mons and maybe even new types like maybe Sound, or Wind).

 

[BettyNewbie]

Giovanni does mention/allure to Red but not by name in HgSs in the Celebi Event.

That's Giovanni, though, not Archer. That could just as easily point back to RBY. It's only in FRLG that Archer encountered Red. (And, let's not even get into the fact that Red wasn't even the sole protagonist of FRLG, unlike the original games.)

I know, just saying that the remakes seem to be more distant from the other games compared to the originals (same will happen with DP and HgSs even if Gen I and II were to be remade. Actually a Gen I remake won't be a good parallel of Gen III unless if it get's remade this Gen but without Gen II which should be remade with Gen IV to keep the parallels. Something is bound to break. Actually Gen DP remakes next Gen or in Gen VIII will break the current Hoenn-Kalos timeline...as DP happen before XY but their remakes will have new mons and maybe even new types like maybe Sound, or Wind).

Honestly, I care less about keeping the parallels with Gen 1/3 and 2/4 and more about keeping 1 and 2 consistent. Gen 3 may take place at the same time as Gen 1, but its storyline doesn't have any direct connections to Gen 1's. Same goes for Gens 2 and 4. Gens 1 and 2, on the other hand, are a direct prequel/sequel pair like BW and B2W2, and should, accordingly, be kept close together.

RBY and GSC were released 2-3 years apart for the same handheld with similar graphics, while FRLG and HGSS were released 5-6 years apart for different handhelds with (very) different graphics. That, alone, was enough to make HGSS feel less like direct sequels than GSC, and the larger gap of time meant that FRLG weren't as fresh in memory when HGSS were made than RBY were when GSC were made, so there were more inconsistencies.

While HGSS, overall, were much better remakes than FRLG and were fine games in their own right, they were clearly made more as GSC remakes than FRLG sequels. (Just look at all of the Yellow callbacks that remained in HGSS, despite FRLG not including anything from Yellow.)

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

That's Giovanni, though, not Archer. That could just as easily point back to RBY. It's only in FRLG that Archer encountered Red. (And, let's not even get into the fact that Red wasn't even the sole protagonist of FRLG, unlike the original games.)



Honestly, I care less about keeping the parallels with Gen 1/3 and 2/4 and more about keeping 1 and 2 consistent. Gen 3 may take place at the same time as Gen 1, but its storyline doesn't have any direct connections to Gen 1's. Same goes for Gens 2 and 4. Gens 1 and 2, on the other hand, are a direct prequel/sequel pair like BW and B2W2, and should, accordingly, be kept close together.

RBY and GSC were released 2-3 years apart for the same handheld with similar graphics, while FRLG and HGSS were released 5-6 years apart for different handhelds with (very) different graphics. That, alone, was enough to make HGSS feel less like direct sequels than GSC, and the larger gap of time meant that FRLG weren't as fresh in memory when HGSS were made than RBY were when GSC were made, so there were more inconsistencies.

While HGSS, overall, were much better remakes than FRLG and were fine games in their own right, they were clearly made more as GSC remakes than FRLG sequels. (Just look at all of the Yellow callbacks that remained in HGSS, despite FRLG not including anything from Yellow.)

Actually Crystal was made exclusively for the Gameboy color which is a different system. Which brings to mind another pattern with remakes. Each generation get's remade one handheld after their creation the handhelds have thus far been Gameboy: Gen 1, Gameboy Color: Gen II (GS were marketed as GBC games and worked optimally on the device), Gameboy Advance: Gen III(Here we got Gen 1 remakes), DS: Gen IV (here we got Gen II remakes), and Gen V, 3DS: Gen VII (here we got Gen III remakes).

So maybe RGBY remakes will come on the 3DS, being treated as the Gen III games FrLg were with Sinnoh remakes in the successor handheld to the 3DS (at least to the marketing level of a new one like with GS for the initial pair). If they do Gen VII on the 3DS they should go with making RGBY remakes then to avoid making Gen VI too long and to avoid making Gen VII too short (game wise as no Gen ever since Gen III has had less than four games...well in Japan only Gen II has had 3, but four games seems like a little by the modern Gen standards established in Gen III and Gen IV (well for those of us who started with them they represent the modern era, and in terms of transfers they sort of do as the Gen III mons transfer hasn't been broken yet like with the original Pokemon games (I,II))) like was the case with Gen V.

Also it'll allow for the remakes to be more polished like comparing Platinum to BW or B2W2 (in this case I'm thinking of OrAs hence why I mention Platinum as it was the second Pokemon release of the DS era like OrAs are for the 3DS era). Also they could add in whatever Gen VII may have. If they go with this then I expect the next couple of years to look something like this:
Dec 2015 (I say December as OrAs were 13 months after XY and wouldn't mind seeing Z be slightly over a year after OrAs.): Z
2016: Gen VII for the 3DS
2017: FrLg remakes for the 21st anniversary (3x7...Three is the number commonly used for Pokemon games in both terms of games and the mascots, and starters, plus FrLg were Gen III games, with Seven being the number of the Gen (also Sevii islands) also FrLg were the seventh main game release in Japan (1st: RG, 2nd: B, 3rd: Y, 4th: GS, 5th C, 6th: RS (funny enough GS and RS were remade for Gen 4 and Gen 6...too bad Yellow wasn't remade for Gen 3...), 7th: FrLg) can be used to justify the 21st over the 20th? or maybe Yellow remakes instead to make up for RG being remade over Yellow in Gen III xD). Also the 15th anniversary of FrLg. and while they're at it can I have my 7th Generation remake of Emerald? (15th for that one too. Also if they ever decide to do a third version remake making it the following Gen will differentiate it from the pair remakes)
2018: Gen VII's third version/sequels/whatever they want to do.
2019: Gen VIII for new handheld.
2020: Gen VIII third version
2021: DP remakes for the 15th anniversary of the original DP
...

 

[Wicked3DS]

And, let's not even get into the fact that Red wasn't even the sole protagonist of FRLG, unlike the original games.

Um, what? This statement makes absolutely no sense.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Um, what? This statement makes absolutely no sense.

FRLG had another player character option besides Red, last time I checked.

Actually Crystal was made exclusively for the Gameboy color which is a different system.

The GBC was about as different from the GB as the DSi was from the DS. Even Nintendo considers them one in the same. It wasn't a completely different handheld like the DS was from the GBA.

As I said earlier, this is how I'd like to see the future remake schedule go:

2018: Yellow/Crystal
2022: Diamond/Pearl
2028: Grey/Grey 2

You wouldn't remake B2W2 10 years after BW, so why do it with Gens 1 and 2? While I know some people would prefer Gen 2 and Johto to be retconned into being more of an isolated entity like Hoenn and Sinnoh, I think it's better to just embrace the fact that Gen 2 is a direct sequel. Plus, they'd need something to pair Yellow with, so why not release it and Crystal as a prequel/sequel pair? It also gives them an excuse to do the same with the Unova games, simplifying that remake by a lot.